Difference between revisions of "OpenMandriva:Technical/M20130521"

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Revision as of 15:09, 22 May 2013

16:41:50] <mdawkins> Proposed agenda:  1. Current state of the release 2. Default configuration 3. Requests for help 4. Documentation 5. AOB
[16:41:58] <Klebedeff> I can bet we can thank our mascot for the delay:))
[16:42:06] <mdawkins> ;)
[16:42:21] <mdawkins> so afaict, we still have a problem with /dev/loop3?
[16:42:48] <Xu|Mobile> Yeah
[16:43:13] <mdawkins> i was out most of the weekend, have we identified what is causing it?
[16:43:20] <arisel> mdawkins: this is a bit undecided. after installation I don't have any troubles with loop3 or loop4. In liveCD it seems to depend on the used emulator.
[16:43:21] <mdawkins> i had some guesses
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[16:43:53] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: do you have these issues inside a liveCD?
[16:43:56] <mdawkins> arisel: right, but i can guarantee you, 95% if the emu's used with be vbox
[16:44:02] <Xu|Mobile> I'm assuming dracut - did you see my reaponse to the email?
[16:44:20] <Xu|Mobile> arisel: yup, both in and out of emu
[16:44:53] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: ok.
[16:45:23] <mdawkins> does anyone know if the problem persists with booting baremetal or qemu?
[16:45:36] <Pulfer> I don't
[16:45:38] <arisel> mdawkins: booting with qemu gives a nice speed
[16:45:42] Xu|Mobile may lose connection
[16:46:09] <mdawkins> and baremetal? anyone try so far?
[16:47:19] <mdawkins> i guess not
[16:47:30] <mdawkins> so also maybe a problem with vbox+kernel
[16:47:35] mdawkins shrugs
[16:47:48] <Xu|Mobile> Actual box I see it happen
[16:48:46] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: Actual box as in "real hardware"?
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[16:52:01] <arisel> mdawkins: I suggest taking a look at the next alpha, and maybe think of the needed vbox-drivers inside the iso.
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[16:52:19] <mdawkins> arisel: yes
[16:52:41] <mdawkins> but afaik, none of the drivers are actually needed
[16:52:49] <mdawkins> i've done CLI isos w/o them
[16:53:05] <arisel> mdawkins: it very much looks as a problem wich either is already solved or is vbox dependant to me.
[16:53:59] <arisel> mdawkins: also: on initial start of the liveCD, nepomuk seems to index files, so that may rise the load on the loopback mounts.
[16:54:10] <mdawkins> arisel: yes
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[16:54:27] <mdawkins> and that's why i asked if that's the default behavior we want
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[16:54:41] <mdawkins> b/c that's also what makes KDE4 quite slow
[16:55:19] <arisel> mdawkins: I had a small discussion with bero that we should not start akonadi by default. It will be started automatically when an application needs it, so not starting it by default also will speed up the experience.
[16:55:52] <arisel> mdawkins: do you see a possibility to disable it for the liveCD and let it enabled for the installation?
[16:55:57] <arisel> (nepomuk)
[16:56:02] <mdawkins> yes
[16:56:19] <arisel> mdawkins: could you take this task and patch it in cooker?
[16:56:33] <mdawkins> actually i'd like abondrov to do so
[16:56:37] <mdawkins> i can contact him
[16:56:52] <mdawkins> if you remember he wants 100% control of kde pkgs
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[16:57:10] <aburmashev> i think it can be done without touching KDE packages
[16:57:16] <arisel> mdawkins: that would be really nice. as far as I understand, there are a lot of people liking desktop indexing, so I'm opposing turning it off completly, but I do not see a need for it on a live CD.
[16:57:21] <fedya|2> What is current channel theme?
[16:57:24] <mdawkins> aburmashev: go ahead
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[16:57:42] <arisel> fedya|2: omv weekly TC meeting :)
[16:58:12] <aburmashev> i will need to check what we did, but i think it is possible to disable nepomuk in live by default in some config and then reenable it after install, with some simple sed postscript
[16:58:18] <fedya|2> Arisel i mean point of agenda
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[16:58:38] <arisel> fedya|2: current state of the release
[16:58:44] <aburmashev> mdawkins:  but of course it will mean that live system will have some configs, that differ from repo
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[16:59:07] <arisel> fedya|2: the place for "what's been happening the last week" and "what are the big open issues".
[16:59:28] <mdawkins> aburmashev: yeah, but like arisel said, it's kinda of a heavy default setting for a liveiso
[16:59:39] <fedya|2> Arisel ok
[16:59:42] <aburmashev> i agree, it slows live mode
[16:59:49] <aburmashev> and even can cause it's crash before the install
[16:59:55] <arisel> aburmashev: as long as it's documented/easy to see somewhere we're fine with that, I think.
[17:01:12] <mdawkins> aburmashev: is that something we can add easily to the build scripts?
[17:01:22] <arisel> next thing for the current state from me is: I changed a lot of the rosa/mandriva texts and artwork to temporary OpenMandriva Ones. These are not at all final, but maybe are enough to keep people from asking what distro they are installing, atm.
[17:01:31] <aburmashev> mdawkins:  yes, i'll send it to you as soon as i will find it
[17:01:39] <aburmashev> mdawkins:  hopefully today )
[17:01:39] <arisel> aburmashev: nice :)
[17:02:15] <mdawkins> aburmashev: ok, is rosa interested in the build scripts project that bero and i started?
[17:03:09] <aburmashev> yes, i think after our RP1 release we will check it
[17:03:33] <mdawkins> ok
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[17:03:59] <mdawkins> aburmashev: also have you seen the /dev/loop3 race condition? and if so, do you have an idea of what causes it?
[17:04:31] <aburmashev> nope, i did not, so i can't tell anything
[17:04:59] <aburmashev> at first glance - no idea, but surely i also think it can be initrd(dracut) related
[17:05:16] <mdawkins> ok
[17:05:30] <mdawkins> shall we move on?
[17:05:35] <mdawkins> next item?
[17:06:19] <aburmashev> checked our iso images and found how we disabled akonadi in past
[17:06:35] <Xu|Mobile> mdawkins: w.r.t loop3: http://sprunge.us/HYNQ
[17:06:46] <aburmashev> (users | grep live) && akonadictl stop && sed -i -e "s/StartServer=true/StartServer=false/" ~/.config/akonadi/akonadiserverrc at firsboot
[17:07:06] <aburmashev> at first login actually, not firstboot
[17:07:17] <mdawkins> aburmashev: where are you adding that?
[17:07:18] <aburmashev> and enabling the same way after installer
[17:07:40] <mdawkins> Xu|Mobile: is this on baremetal?
[17:07:46] <aburmashev> extraconfig/usr/bin/firstboot_user
[17:07:56] <aburmashev> and inside is
[17:07:56] <aburmashev> #!/bin/sh.
[17:07:56] <aburmashev> rm ~/.kde4/Autostart/firstboot.sh
[17:08:03] <aburmashev> so it is the oneshot script to run at first login
[17:08:12] <Xu|Mobile> That's vbox. I don't have the baremetal one yet.
[17:08:46] <mdawkins> Xu|Mobile: reading thru the log
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[17:10:40] <mdawkins> the last line is interesting 146.968025] akonadi_agent_l[2079]: segfault at 48 ip 00007f1cdcbffc10 sp 00007fffaa91d008 error 4 in libQtDBus.so.4.8.4[7f1cdcbd1000+76000]
[17:13:06] <mdawkins> so next
[17:13:07] <mdawkins> Default configuration
[17:13:12] <mdawkins> any comments
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[17:13:30] <mdawkins> the disabling of nepomuk is kinda under that topic
[17:14:30] <Pulfer> aburmashev: Do you remember if we have Nepomuk enabled by default in Rosa 2012.1?
[17:14:32] <arisel> mdawkins: nepomuk for live and akonadie for all (as it will be enabled when used)
[17:14:36] <aburmashev> i can also find some default config that make live mode more stable
[17:14:40] <aburmashev> Pulfer: we have it enabled
[17:14:52] <Pulfer> So should be fine for Cooker as well
[17:15:05] <Xu|Mobile> What icon theme/default theme/artwork?
[17:15:21] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: bero made a post to the artwork team about that.
[17:15:32] <Xu|Mobile> Also, we're still keeping SimpleWelcome, I assume
[17:15:38] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: I don't know the state of it, yet.
[17:15:41] <Xu|Mobile> arisel: ok.
[17:16:22] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: atm I did not change the config at all, but changed some artwork to sth temp.
[17:16:41] <aburmashev> i had some ideas for ROSA in past, but they were no accepted - it would be cool to have a choice at installer to choose between ROSA style ( panel and simplewelcome )
[17:16:45] <aburmashev> and classic KDE
[17:16:53] <Pulfer> SW should be possibly merged from Rosa again as its devs reject to work with Cooker and push latest versions only to Rosa 2012.1 git
[17:17:08] <aburmashev> with the help from someone who can hack the installer i could do that )
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[17:17:21] <Pulfer> aburmashev: I guess those were accepted but nobody took care of them?
[17:17:27] <mdawkins> Pulfer: if anything is merged it, should be done on a per pkg basis
[17:17:39] <aburmashev> Pulfer: nope, they were declined
[17:17:45] <aburmashev> like "noone really needs it"
[17:17:51] <Pulfer> aburmashev: By Denis?
[17:17:55] <aburmashev> yes
[17:18:08] <Xu|Mobile> aburmashev: I like that idea, but is there any code that could be used to help that along?
[17:18:19] <Pulfer> aburmashev: No surprise... I guess we must re-consider that
[17:18:41] <aburmashev> Xu|Mobile: that is the problem, it is required to make a new screen for draklive-install
[17:18:51] <aburmashev> with 2 checkboxes and "next" button )
[17:19:18] <aburmashev> if someone could help me with that i can do the rest - i mean configs and readable code in bash format )
[17:19:23] <Pulfer> I'd prefer radiobox instead :-)
[17:19:25] <arisel> aburmashev: the installer code we all are using is rather "grown".
[17:19:30] <Xu|Mobile> If someone has documentation, I might be able to help with that
[17:19:31] <arisel> aburmashev: do you speak perl?
[17:19:34] <aburmashev> nope
[17:19:39] <aburmashev> barely )
[17:19:39] <Pulfer> Neither I do
[17:19:43] <Xu|Mobile> No guarantees though - I dislike perl with a passion.
[17:19:57] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: you might hack that into "drakxtools-14.41/perl-install/standalone/finish-install"
[17:20:28] <Xu|Mobile> arisel: noted; I look into it.
[17:20:33] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: (drakx-finish-install-14.41-3-omv2013.0.x86_64)
[17:21:07] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: I had a long search due the whole installer ..thingy and that's maybe the best place for one of those choices.
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[17:21:24] <arisel> at least it's one of the easiest to hack.
[17:22:18] <bero|2> Hi
[17:22:24] <bero|2> sorry, was confusing timezones
[17:22:29] <arisel> mdawkins: I started a list on a lot of pkgs which we will still have to touch until release (due to artwork, license files, or themes): http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Linux_System_developing#List_of_unfinished_artwork.2Ftheme.2Flicense_packages
[17:22:34] <arisel> bero|2: *g*
[17:22:34] bero|2 reads back
[17:22:52] <Xu|Mobile> I hope one day we can have a rewrite of the drak* tools...
[17:23:02] <mdawkins> arisel: good
[17:23:04] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: we're all hoping that :)
[17:23:48] <arisel> mdawkins: feel free to add stuff to it or do stuff inside these packages in order to get it omv-branded/adpated.
[17:25:07] <Pulfer> arisel: Please also add "Kickoff top tile" to mandriva-kde4-config list
[17:25:34] <Pulfer> arisel: Currently it must be "ROSA    KDE 4.10" (or even 4.9)
[17:26:24] <arisel> Pulfer: done.
[17:26:44] <Pulfer> It's easy to change because it's svg image created by hand. So it's possible to edit it in any text editor and just replase ROSA with anything else
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[17:27:39] <bero|2> Ok, I've caught up
[17:27:43] <Pulfer> In past top tile image was ugly svg created in some gfx editor, impossible to edit as text
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[17:28:29] <arisel> Pulfer: ok
[17:28:44] <arisel> bero|2: so it's your's to continue, I'd say
[17:29:00] <bero|2> Speaking of kickoff top tile, we have the whole issue of kickoff vs. simplewelcome vs. lancelot...
[17:29:26] <bero|2> And on a similar topic, default theme, default window placement etc.
[17:30:08] <bero|2> My proposal would be making all available, and defaulting to a more traditional menu, w/ window placement set to smart rather than centered
[17:30:15] <bero|2> But of course people can disagree
[17:30:43] <bero|2> And I still like the idea of a chooser at first login (behave like OM/behave like ROSA/behave like Windoze/behave like OSX/...)
[17:31:01] <aburmashev> ^ same
[17:31:22] <bero|2> I think we'll leave default theme choice etc. up to the Artwork team, they probably have a much better vision of a good looking desktop
[17:31:24] <arisel> bero|2: take a look at Xu's and my conversation. This won't be first login, though.
[17:31:28] <bero|2> We just need to make things functional
[17:31:37] <Pulfer> bero|2: Personally I'd prefer SW by default and kickoff optional
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[17:32:19] Xu_R|WC is finally at a stable location... he thinks
[17:33:06] <bero|2> Maybe we should even ask the users for some input there...
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[17:34:54] <arisel> bero|2: maybe next time.. Think we should just start with a good idea from artwork and us for the first release.
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[17:39:17] <bero> So what opinions do we have?
[17:39:37] <Pulfer> BTW, today people had much fun discussing proyvind's artwork: http://mib.pianetalinux.org/miblight/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bernielomax_003.png
[17:39:48] <Pulfer> Such childish artwork should be removed
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[17:40:06] arisel is for having a chooser either at first login (preferred), or during installation.
[17:40:06] <Pulfer> Or people will laugh at us
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[17:40:12] <OnlyHuman> is it ok to use name Mandriva in scripts?
[17:40:42] <Klebedeff> Is it a big trouble to have openmandriva instead?
[17:41:02] <Pulfer> Quite much of work to change and test
[17:41:31] <Klebedeff> Basically, where it is a big trouble tomchange - wemcould keep "mandriva" for some time
[17:41:52] <arisel> *nods* we already changed some of the names and paths, but there are a lot of places where the mandriva-name in paths or packages is quite hard to change in short time.
[17:41:55] <Klebedeff> But generally - we try to replace everywhere
[17:42:00] <OnlyHuman> just noticed in iso-build-tools/ks.template it says MandrivaLinux
[17:42:25] <bero> OnlyHuman: depends what it refers to - our OS isn't Mandriva, but in terms of compatibility links (like checking for /etc/mandriva-release) it's fine
[17:43:06] <Klebedeff> Would we in the end have it all replaced?
[17:43:23] <Klebedeff> At some point?
[17:43:36] <bero> Pulfer:agreed about the artwork, except I think we should make it available as an option (my 6 year old niece and 4 year old nephew love it)
[17:43:41] <arisel> OnlyHuman: the way it's used there is fine :)
[17:44:07] <OnlyHuman> ok, just mentioning thanks :)
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[17:44:31] <Pulfer> bero: Well, hard to make installer artwork optional :-) But we can just include it in some package
[17:44:54] <arisel> bero|2: when do you think it will be time for a final "what to do until release"-list? :)
[17:45:03] <Pulfer> Anyway, kids don't need to install OS
[17:45:13] <arisel> s/bero|2/bero
[17:45:18] <bero> Pulfer: sure, I was talking about the grub screen etc. that go with it
[17:45:42] <bero> We aren't using the drakx installer right now anyway
[17:46:00] <bero> Is someone planning to work on bringing it back?
[17:46:15] <Pulfer> bero: Can we use it in future (soon)?
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[17:46:25] <OnlyHuman> depends how seriously you take yourselfs :P
[17:46:43] <Pulfer> Personally I don't know anything about installer internals and ISO creation
[17:46:55] <Pulfer> Never tried to learn
[17:47:49] <bero> Pulfer: sure, we just need to figure out how to build isos there, it uses rather obscure scripts
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[17:48:14] <bero> So that's actually another default thing we should decide on
[17:48:37] <fedya|2> M
[17:48:44] <bero> Live installer vs. Drakx vs. Ark installer vs. other ideas
[17:49:05] <arisel> Pulfer: I would prefer to think about changing to sth different and better themeable after our first release.
[17:49:35] <arisel> Pulfer: for now I could live with live installer or DrakX. Don't mind :)
[17:49:45] <blackcrack> 1+ users love themes
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[17:50:17] <bero> arisel: +1
[17:50:33] Xu_R|WC prefers the traditional free installer
[17:51:06] <mdawkins> are we in a situation where this should be addressed atm?
[17:51:20] <mdawkins> it all takes quite a bit of devel work to do no?
[17:51:33] <mdawkins> just being pragmatic
[17:52:36] <arisel> mdawkins: so you're voting for : let's stay with the live installer for now?
[17:52:45] <mdawkins> yes
[17:52:52] <arisel> I could agree to this.
[17:52:56] <mdawkins> there is tons still to do for a release
[17:53:03] <bero> That would be my choice for now as well
[17:53:04] <arisel> *nods*
[17:53:08] <mdawkins> and a release is more important that possible features
[17:53:14] <arisel> Yepp.
[17:53:16] <mdawkins> we already agreed on features
[17:53:27] <bero> But we need to talk about it just in case someone thinks it's unacceptable
[17:53:33] <mdawkins> ok
[17:54:49] <arisel> so.. maybe let's just vote on it :) Or see if there's anyone willing to dive into the traditional one and take over maintanance.
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[17:55:18] arisel <-- took a look and does not want to touch it that much :)
[17:55:52] <bero> OK, anyone opposed to using the live installer for this release?
[17:55:58] <mdawkins> no
[17:56:02] <crisb> no
[17:56:08] <arisel> no
[17:56:29] bero doesn't really want to touch drakx either
[17:56:37] <arisel> Pulfer, fedya|2 ?
[17:57:09] <fedya|2> No
[17:57:30] <Pulfer> arisel: Well, I'd like to see "old" installer being used but I surely won't take care of it myself :-)
[17:57:41] <Pulfer> So let's use Live
[17:57:45] <arisel> ok :)
[17:58:12] <bero> OK - so previous issue...
[17:58:39] <bero> Anyone opposed to changing window placement from centered to smart?
[17:59:07] <crisb> no
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[17:59:21] <arisel> bero: not at all :)
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[18:00:41] <arisel> bero: how do these theme issues relate with aburmashev's and your idea to have a selection of themes at first login for the user?
[18:01:41] <bero> arisel: a selection can override the default...
[18:01:57] <aburmashev> yes
[18:02:17] <bero> If we get the selector done in time, the defaults will still be the defaults unless the user picks a different set
[18:02:26] <arisel> bero: ok.
[18:03:58] <arisel> so.. no opposition against window placement change.
[18:04:04] <bero> Good...
[18:04:14] <arisel> Yepp :)
[18:04:20] <bero> Now the controversional one
[18:04:40] <bero> Simple welcome vs Kickoff vs Lancelot
[18:05:22] <Pulfer> Personally I'd prefer to have SW enabled by default and others included in ISO
[18:05:26] blackcrack whant say, take the normal, standart, then let the user configuration what he whant
[18:06:13] <arisel> Pulfer: does SW have a no-fullscreen option?
[18:06:32] <Pulfer> arisel: I don't think so but it's good for "wow-effect"
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[18:07:04] <blackcrack> Pulfer, some user have a uhhffhh.. effect on this toutchscreen thing
[18:07:13] <Pulfer> arisel: Personally I remove it as the first action after installation
[18:07:28] <Pulfer> And prefer to use kickoff in a classic style
[18:07:42] <Pulfer> blackcrack: No doubt :-)
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[18:07:58] <Pulfer> blackcrack: I'm among such users
[18:08:07] <arisel> Pulfer: *g* i also don't use it on my desktops. On a laptop it's ok.
[18:08:12] <crisb> is SW the rosa launcher?
[18:08:16] <arisel> Yepp
[18:08:22] bero prefers kickoff in classic style too, but agrees SW looks good
[18:08:36] <crisb> yeah i like SW
[18:08:42] <blackcrack> Pulfer, me too *lol*
[18:09:25] <blackcrack> maby both ?
[18:09:44] <Pulfer> Please remember that default config screenshots will be used in various reviews. So users could see that it's not the same boring KDE as in every other distro
[18:09:48] <blackcrack> the normal kickoff and the welcomebutton by side ?
[18:10:04] <arisel> Pulfer: good point
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[18:10:42] <bero> What about Lancelot? It could be an option in between
[18:10:48] <blackcrack> uh 2 statrbuttons to mutch or why go pulfer *lol*
[18:11:07] <arisel> .oO(so maybe i should add my desktop BG pics to the distro. These are photographs of the coastline of Skye.)
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[18:12:47] <arisel> bero: well... I like SW for being shiny, i hate it for not having nice categories.
[18:13:13] <bero> Same here
[18:13:28] <bero> I think it looks great but is not very user friendly
[18:13:38] <arisel> bero: so if people tell me that SW is useful for them, let's stay with it. If nobody finds it useful we should change the default.
[18:14:12] <arisel> crisb: I got the impression that you find SW useful. Is this correct?
[18:14:39] <crisb> arisel: yeah
[18:15:21] <arisel> crisb: how do you use it? Often use the search field, or the indexing/timeline  feature?
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[18:15:51] <crisb> search yes, but not the timeframe or indexing
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[18:16:21] <arisel> crisb: ok.
[18:16:37] <blackcrack> i use ever the alt+F2 for it.. easy and fast.. for typing and start the programms
[18:16:49] <bero> Does anyone else use SW?
[18:16:53] <arisel> bero: so.. personally i would prefer lancelot, but as SW seems to be useable, maybe we should stay with it. Don't really know.
[18:17:04] <crisb> i've not used lancelot
[18:17:07] bero uses Alt+F2 most of the timebtoo
[18:17:11] <blackcrack> lancelot is very nice 1+
[18:17:28] <arisel> crisb: http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/screenshots
[18:18:09] <crisb> tell a lie, i do rememebr seeing that
[18:18:12] <arisel> bero: which other distributions use lancelot? Do you know?
[18:18:37] <blackcrack> i add gladly lancelost to the default starter
[18:19:22] <bero> I don't know.
[18:19:56] <blackcrack> you are should at it fast.. it's on the addons, the Kelch
[18:20:00] <crisb> perhaps more feedback will come from further alphas/betas
[18:20:01] <bero> Haven't seen any distribution using it by default so far
[18:20:06] <blackcrack> arisel, please translate Kelch
[18:20:49] <blackcrack> Cub.. the Cub of Wood for long live
[18:21:09] <bero> Yes... Given lancelot is widely unknown, maybe we should just make it the default in the next alpha and see what people say
[18:21:25] <blackcrack> 1+
[18:21:32] <bero> We can always go to something else in the next alpha after it
[18:21:36] <arisel> +1 if crisb is ok with that :)
[18:22:45] <ashledombos> can i just jump in quickly?
[18:22:52] <ashledombos> about lancelot vs ...
[18:22:59] <blackcrack> :)
[18:23:05] <crisb> sure why not
[18:23:15] <crisb> i'm menu agnostic
[18:23:16] <crisb> :)
[18:23:17] <ashledombos> i know that it's too late for next release, but wdyt about kabudan from chakra
[18:23:24] <ashledombos> which let user choose during install
[18:23:25] <ashledombos> http://www.chakra-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Kapudan
[18:24:01] <crisb> brb
[18:24:11] <arisel> ashledombos: that's looking nice!
[18:24:15] <ashledombos> see 5th screenshot
[18:24:23] <blackcrack> looks good
[18:24:29] <bero> ashledombos: got to check how compatible it is w/ our setup...
[18:24:45] <arisel> bero: will you do that?
[18:24:49] <bero> May be easy to put in, may be difficult
[18:24:54] <ashledombos> sure, and maybe it's too late, but it seemed interesting
[18:25:07] <bero> arisel: can do
[18:25:09] <ashledombos> so it was my two cents, sorry for disturbing :)
[18:25:13] <arisel> nice :)
[18:25:28] <arisel> ashledombos: have been good 2�. Can I give you more money? :)
[18:25:46] <ashledombos> sure :p
[18:26:45] <ashledombos> notice that kapudan also propose the menu takeoff
[18:26:46] <ashledombos> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Takeoff?content=144078
[18:27:22] <ashledombos> (but imho SW is far better)
[18:27:28] <arisel> (it is)
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[18:28:06] <blackcrack> (hihi)
[18:28:30] <blackcrack> for notebooks
[18:30:38] <ashledombos> nope, for day to day use, with a mouse and its wheel
[18:30:51] <ashledombos> in a standard large screen
[18:31:13] <blackcrack> :) i did say, maby both Bottons by side, Standart and sw..
[18:31:28] <bero> Another one to look at...
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[18:32:41] <bero> I don't like the idea of having 2 of them in by default for the release, too much duplication... But it could be a good idea for an alpha focused on getting feedback on the options
[18:33:11] <blackcrack> so, lancelot..
[18:33:54] <arisel> bero: how about providing lancelot (with oxygen theme, maybe) and SW for the next alpha and ask people on cooker about it?
[18:34:08] <bero> Sure
[18:34:48] <arisel> bero: do you have more on "default configuration"?
[18:35:53] <bero> Not unless someone else has things they'd like to change
[18:36:57] <Klebedeff> Time for smaaaal org issue?
[18:37:57] <bero|2> Klebedeff: sure
[18:38:04] <bero|2> Looks like we're done w/ the config topic anyway
[18:38:59] <Klebedeff> Would it make sense to have TC mailing list? For not fully development issues, but related - like users license for example and things like that
[18:39:34] <Klebedeff> Would not be used too often, but would keep cooker ML free from not fully dev issues
[18:39:55] <bero|2> Good question...
[18:39:55] <Klebedeff> And let related things being decided exactly by the right group
[18:40:07] <bero|2> License issues sound like something more for the council
[18:40:28] <Klebedeff> Also right..
[18:40:35] <bero|2> But I can see some other things we may want to decide in a more defined group
[18:41:16] <Klebedeff> Basically, would such ML be an extra thing "omg one more password to remember" or useful:)
[18:42:09] <bero|2> Good question... Any thoughts?
[18:43:08] <Klebedeff> Let's say i dropped an idea, if there will be need - anybody - pls ping me:)
[18:44:29] <bero|2> Klebedeff: thanks, looks like nobody has an opinion on it... I think we'll ask for it when we actually have an issue that would be a matter for the list
[18:44:43] <Klebedeff> Going for now, will be here and in email in about 3 hrs
[18:44:45] <bero|2> So...
[18:44:48] <Klebedeff> Tks Bero
[18:44:50] <bero|2> --- 3. Requests for help ---
[18:45:02] arisel thinks that that might put the impression in place of secrecy, so that's a tough decision :9
[18:45:19] <Klebedeff> Oh, the archives would be open
[18:45:23] <Klebedeff> :)
[18:45:41] <Klebedeff> Gone:)
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[18:45:52] <arisel> ^^
[18:46:49] <bero|2> From my side, we're still looking for help w/ fixing packages, searching and fixing bugs, ...
[18:47:08] <bero|2> So please look at the list of packages failing the mass rebuild and fix any bugs you come across ;)
[18:47:31] <bero|2> Any other (maybe more specific) requests for help? (arisel: excluding documentation for now, that's the next topic ;) )
[18:48:11] arisel thinks that help for the artwork/branding/theming stuff might be needed.
[18:49:02] <arisel> There are a lot of hardcoded thins inside. And some things are distributed over a lot of packages. And I don't think we'll be able to cleanup that until release, but I'm sure we'd like to have our artwrok in place, everywhere :)
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[18:49:48] <bero|2> True, we should really fix this
[18:50:18] <bero|2> And we need to get rid of references to Mandriva (without Open) and Moondrake where they aren't needed for compatibility
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[18:54:36] <bero|2> Ok, guess that's that then...
[18:54:42] <bero|2> --- 4. Documentation ---
[18:54:48] <bero|2> arisel: I'll leave this for you ;)
[18:54:54] <arisel> bero|2: *g*
[18:55:16] arisel <-- still is missing input from bero and mdawkins :)
[18:55:28] <bero|2> Right... So a little progress update from me:
[18:55:48] <bero|2> I've finally had the time to adapt the packaging-tools package to our packaging rules etc.
[18:56:16] <bero|2> That's what I was waiting for because my part will rely on the tools in there, they make things a bit easier (and in particular easier to explain)
[18:56:30] <arisel> bero|2: nice to hear :)
[18:56:54] <bero|2> The tools are some 10 years old so chances are they could be improved ;) but I think they're still useful...
[18:56:59] <bero|2> mdawkins: Any update from your side?
[18:57:01] <arisel> bero|2: so maybe take a look at this page: http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Linux_System_developing and see here your name is set :)
[18:58:55] <arisel> While mdawkins seems to be afk,.. I took bero's iso-creation tools and did a short "how to create an iso and test it" here: http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Linux_System_BuildISO
[18:59:33] <arisel> however, I'm using qemu instead of the vbox several people prefer, as I'm used to it and had no troubles with it.
[18:59:59] <bero|2> Both are good IMO
[19:00:13] <arisel> also TC has it's documentation here: http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/OpenMandriva:Technical
[19:01:04] <arisel> if anyone has irc looging on it would be nice to upload this meeting log to the TC page (or better some subpage)
[19:03:25] <arisel> bero|2: do you have irc logging on?
[19:03:38] <bero|2> No, but I have a huge buffer to scroll back in and copy&paste
[19:03:50] <arisel> bero|2: ok :) mine is too short :)
[19:04:20] arisel thinks that we've to ask mdawkins on documentation when he wakes up again :)
[19:04:45] <bero|2> Right...
[19:04:53] <bero|2> So...
[19:04:53] arisel will do that :)
[19:04:56] <bero|2> --- 5. AOB ---
[19:05:00] <bero|2> Anything?
[19:05:31] arisel asked Kate for taking a look at the license text, but I think that's an issue to be taken care of by the council.
[19:05:45] <dsilakov> what are the plans about draktools? In particular, drakconf?
[19:06:27] <dsilakov> Here - http://fba.rosalinux.ru/repoclosure/cooker/main/i586/ - I can see that drakconf-kde4, but not the kcm* things that are used in rosa to embed some draktools to kde cc
[19:06:38] <arisel> (For the moment i took Per's last revision which had just moondrake as replacement everywhere and decided where the assoc and where the distri should be in the names :)
[19:07:26] <dsilakov> so are we going to follow rosa way and remove drakconf itself (at least from the default installation)?
[19:07:29] <arisel> dsilakov: you're still shipping drakinvictus?
[19:07:59] <dsilakov> if it managed to build, then it is present in repos:)
[19:08:19] <arisel> dsilakov: *g* better remove it. There's no chane to have it working with current kernels :)
[19:08:58] <dsilakov> i guess nobody really uses it now
[19:09:31] <dsilakov> but yes, removing is a good idea:)
[19:09:36] arisel tried a few years agon and was quite raged as he noticed that it's provided but can't work anymore.
[19:09:59] <blackcrack> what, remove drakconf ?? this is what makes Mandrake !!
[19:11:08] <blackcrack> not at all whant the F%$% KDE systemsettingssh..
[19:11:24] <blackcrack> drakconf mus be include to be WM independet !
[19:11:41] <dsilakov> the latter reason is indeed important
[19:11:53] <arisel> dsilakov: it is..
[19:11:58] <dsilakov> otherwise, most users are confused having two places to configure the system
[19:12:10] <arisel> dsilakov: could yopu please explain the missing kcm's? I'm no kde guru?
[19:12:21] <bero|2> IMO we should go w/ systemsettings by default at least for KDE users - but we may want to keep old drakconf around for users of other desktops
[19:12:54] <dsilakov> arisel: according to fba, kcm-* packages are missing in repos
[19:13:00] <bero|2> arisel: A kcm is a kcontrol module (or rather systemsettings module these days, but the name remained the same), looks like we're missing the integration packages there
[19:13:42] <arisel> dsilakov: I see them missing but i don't know on how they should look like..
[19:13:50] <dsilakov> as for drakconf, it was a really cool thing ten years ago when it really was a central place to configure the system. But now it intersects a lot with kde cc, gnomce cc, etc. This is realy confusing....
[19:14:03] <blackcrack> Mandrake it is WM independet and mus furter be independet, who whant kill the drakconf, want be a a killer from the heart of Mandrake !!
[19:14:27] <dsilakov> arisel: https://abf.rosalinux.ru/import/kcm-harddrake
[19:14:34] <arisel> dsilakov: ok, gound it :)
[19:14:37] <arisel> aehh.. found it
[19:14:46] <blackcrack> i p... on KDEsystemsettings sh..
[19:14:46] <dsilakov> they are all present in the import group, but were not forked to openmandriva
[19:15:02] <arisel> dsilakov: so it might be a matetr of "just do it" :)
[19:15:13] <arisel> dsilakov: i disagree of it to be confusing.
[19:15:28] <arisel> dsilakov: kde std users will stay with the kde config tools.
[19:15:39] <bero|2> We should definitely copy them over
[19:15:45] <blackcrack> they shold use Rosa !!
[19:15:56] <dsilakov> blackcrack: note that kcm-* things just add icons from drakconf to kde cc
[19:15:57] <blackcrack> a kde only Distrro !
[19:16:51] <arisel> dsilakov: and all others will use drakconf and not take a look at all at the kde tools.
[19:17:06] <blackcrack> Mandrake it is a independed Distro for have a independed Control center..
[19:17:46] <arisel> dsilakov: could we ask you on doing this? since i see that you did some permission changes there where I'm unsure if we should also do them :)
[19:17:53] <blackcrack> for have a possible to use  drakconf in E17, Wmaker, EDE, FVWM and manny other Windowmanager..
[19:18:11] <arisel> blackcrack: all fine, we got your idea :)
[19:18:30] <bero|2> blackcrack: Having the kcms and having drakconf is not mutually exclusive - they can coexist
[19:18:48] <dsilakov> well, we wouldn't object if all necessary tools from kde cc are merged to drakconf
[19:19:12] <dsilakov> the problem is that some tools are better in drakconf, the others are better in wm-specific control centers
[19:19:30] <dsilakov> and bero is right, even rosa still provides drakconf
[19:19:36] <dsilakov> it is just not instaled by default
[19:19:45] <blackcrack> arisel, pw
[19:20:52] <blackcrack> dont toutch my loved independed Mandrake draktools !
[19:21:21] <dsilakov> blackcrack: are you ready to maintain them?
[19:21:47] <blackcrack> ehh no.. but i be a longlive user.. i was at Dec 99 on Mandrake
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[19:22:00] <dsilakov> one of the problems is that nobody likes to dig into that mess of perl/c code...
[19:22:38] <arisel> dsilakov: I agree with you that they are aged, but not having a CC for anything else but kde is not an option, I'd say.
[19:22:39] <blackcrack> you dont mus use it.. .. let it by side and go an other way..
[19:22:55] <dsilakov> arisel: yes, surely
[19:23:31] <arisel> dsilakov: as you're familar with them: could you fork the kcms and take a look if they run? :)
[19:24:18] <dsilakov> ok, i'll fork missing kcms to openmandriva
[19:24:31] <dsilakov> maybe tomorrow, it's already quite a late evening here:)
[19:26:03] <arisel> dsilakov: thanks a lot!
[19:29:14] <arisel> bero|2: from what I understand we've still a few issues in main, correct?
[19:33:25] <arisel> (this meeting is taking too long ;)
[19:35:41] <bero|2> arisel: Yes, there's a few issues in main -- but we still have to launch a mass build to see where we still have build issues
[19:35:50] <bero|2> I'm aware of the Java stack being quite broken
[19:35:55] <bero|2> I've fixed the basics of that
[19:36:04] <bero|2> But still need to go over the not so basic packages there
[19:36:39] <bero|2> I've already fixed the libreoffice build issue (that was caused by redland and friends failing on i586, causing old packages floating around w/ incorrect devel(db-5.2) dependencies)
[19:36:53] <bero|2> Of course there's the repoclosure issues
[19:37:10] <bero|2> Most of them seem to be about packages we don't really need in main
[19:37:20] <arisel> bero|2: so how's the schedule: 1) get theming/configuration right, 2) fork cooker/main to omv2013 and mass rebuild it to see what's still to be fixed?
[19:37:48] <bero|2> So another item on the todo list would be (again) check which packages from main should go to contrib and vice versa
[19:38:02] <bero|2> arisel: Yes, looks good to me
[19:38:21] <bero|2> And of course, fix any bugs we can find
[19:38:41] <arisel> bero|2: so maybe let's focus on 1) and "fix any bugs" until next week :)
[19:38:57] <bero|2> Yes, agreed
[19:41:33] <arisel> bero|2: shall I / will you provide another alpha soon? I'd like to wait for libreoffice to finish and your default configuration changes.
[19:41:55] <arisel> bero|2: but that will most possibly have a little bit nicer installation phase :)
[19:42:47] <bero|2> arisel: Yes, let's wait for the LO build to finish and some new artwork getting in
[19:43:06] <bero|2> We have the new K menu button, so that can go in (the current one definitely looks out of place)
[19:43:12] <bero|2> Let's see what else we get really soon
[19:43:32] <arisel> bero|2: feel free to put in place what you have (would be nice if you update the list on the wiki, then)
[19:43:57] <arisel> bero|2: for the ads, i put some temporary inside.
[19:44:01] <dsilakov> I've forked kcm-* packages to openmandriva, but i can't add packages to the cooker platform
[19:44:26] <bero|2> dsilakov: Let me check, aren't repo admins supposed to be able to add packages these days?
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[19:51:13] <bero|2> dsilakov: Try again, you should have the permissions now
[19:53:44] <dsilakov> hm, when i click to "platforms", i don't see cooker...
[19:54:02] <dsilakov> uh, sorry, i should go now...
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[20:00:58] <arisel> bero|2: hmm.. however, I thinks this has been end of AOB, right? :)
[20:01:09] <bero|2> Yes, think so...
[20:01:15] <bero|2> Unless anyone wants to bring up OB ;)
[20:03:02] <OnlyHuman> nice to see on new openmandriva iso desktop settings moondrake wallpaper present lol :P
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[20:07:24] <blackcrack> bb
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[20:16:20] <arisel> bero|2: just ran through perl:Extutils and rebuild everathing not already built against the actal perl version
[20:17:20] <bero|2> Nice
[20:18:33] <arisel> bero|2: if we're lucky that should mod_perl make buildable again :)
[20:18:59] <bero|2> That would be nice...
[20:19:06] <bero|2> Even though I think removing perl would be even nicer ;)
[20:20:16] <arisel> bero|2: *g*
[20:20:36] <arisel> bero|2: we just have to rebuild really everything perl dependent when updateing perl
[20:22:41] <bero|2> Right...
[20:22:49] <bero|2> perl 5.18 will be a huge mess after the release
[20:23:07] <arisel> better not do this before release :)
[20:23:30] <arisel> as long as you don't want to work 2 weeks just on that :)
[20:23:42] <bero|2> I'll feed anyone throwing a 5.18 build at the build system before the release to Chwido ;)
[20:23:50] <arisel> ok :)
[20:26:52] <OnlyHuman> just feed him on the bones of old Mandriva :)
[20:46:47] <Xu_R> ...Where did this meeting end o.o
[20:47:14] <arisel> 9:59 <arisel> bero|2: hmm.. however, I thinks this has been end of AOB, right?
[20:47:16] <arisel>                :)
[20:47:18] <arisel> 19:59 <bero|2> Yes, think so...
[20:47:23] <arisel> Xu_R: but you're right.. :)
[20:47:29] <arisel> bero|2: please end it formally :)
[20:47:40] <bero|2> Ended ;)