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Council Meeting: 29/August/2013 15:00 UTC in #openmandriva-council @ freenode


see the loomio page

Summary of the last month:

   1 Statutes of Community Pods
   2 Reports about surveys

outcome : to be finished by João

   3 Gathering of workgroups

Done, mailing list created

   4 Meetings Schedule

Next meeting planned 10/09/2013

OM Lx beta:

   5 Tentative release date and preparations required (Communication and Infra)

Release date 13 october

   6 Definition of OpenMandriva Lx We have our definition, should we include or not the Mandriva legacy in it?

People seems more in favour of "no"


   7 Partnership with Edutice

Need more informations

   8 ABF evolution?

Naming ABF under a more generic name

   9 Proposal of having a second meeting this month (september)


  10 AOB


Full meeting log

[15:03:25] <jofazepa> Agenda Summary of the last month: ** Statutes of Community Pods ** Reports about surveys ** Gathering of workgroups ** Meetings Schedule OM Lx beta: ** Tentative release date and preparations required (Communication and Infra) ** Definition of OpenMandriva Lx We have our definition, should we include or not the Mandriva legacy in it? Partnership with Edutice ** ABF evolution?
[15:03:25] <jclv> He will be there in 10-15 minutes
[15:04:11] <jofazepa> Some of the agenda issues I don't know what are about or what is suposed to be discussed :P
[15:04:27] anuragbhd [~Thunderbi@] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[15:04:44] <jofazepa> I'm really not prepared for this meeting Kate, sorry...
[15:04:46] <klebedeff> Well, then we all have coffee time for 10 minutes, I guess:))
[15:05:14] <jofazepa> and I'll have to leave by 15:30 UTC... have some problems to solve
[15:05:39] <jofazepa> :(
[15:06:10] <jclv> I just numbered the topics in the loomio page
[15:06:31] <klebedeff> we could discuss now the topics, which you know, I guess?
[15:07:29] <jofazepa> BTW, was the survey to devs sent to cooker?
[15:07:57] <klebedeff> I ddi not do this
[15:08:26] <jofazepa> I've send it to Raf and next send it to Bero through some ML thread...
[15:08:38] <jofazepa> but ok
[15:08:44] <jofazepa> Regarding the user survey
[15:08:53] <bero|3> jofazepa: no, I wanted to do it during Tuesday's meeting, but almost nobody showed up
[15:09:07] anuragbhd [~Thunderbi@] a quitté IRC : Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:09:13] <klebedeff> may be just to send it to cooker ML?
[15:09:22] anuragbhd [~Thunderbi@] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[15:09:23] <jofazepa> I have the work almost done, but I've been with some dificulties and was unable to be as fast as I would like....
[15:09:29] <bero|3> Guess I'll just post it to the mailing list instead of waiting for the next meeting
[15:10:00] <jofazepa> bero| 3: it's a way
[15:10:28] <klebedeff> Joao, may be we could discuss the PODs topic?
[15:10:35] <klebedeff> or full agenda is only with Raph?
[15:10:57] anuragbhd [~Thunderbi@] a changé de pseudo en AnuragBhandari
[15:10:58] <jofazepa> I don't know what raf wanted to discuss really, on that point
[15:11:24] <jofazepa> I'm working, slowly, on it...
[15:11:41] <jofazepa> I never received any contact, except
[15:11:49] <jofazepa> from a New Zeland old mug
[15:11:55] <jofazepa> that is trying to get up again
[15:12:21] <jofazepa> I will contact personally the other mugs from a list i've collected
[15:12:36] <jofazepa> but I wanted to finish other issues first... like the team merges, strategy for com and mark, etc...
[15:12:43] <klebedeff> ok, then just waiting:)
[15:12:56] <klebedeff> with PODs is it for the moment blogdrake and brazil, I guess
[15:12:59] <jofazepa> sorry guys, I was unable to prepare this meeting
[15:13:02] <jofazepa> I often prepare them
[15:13:15] <jofazepa> with some advance
[15:13:55] <jofazepa> In my head I need to solve the institutional forms first...
[15:14:06] <jofazepa> It's to much to solve and put moving forward... :(
[15:14:35] <klebedeff> Raph has it all, it happens, that people are late
[15:14:41] <klebedeff> you have no need to be sorry
[15:14:42] <klebedeff> :)
[15:15:14] <jofazepa> I do... is responsability
[15:15:22] <jofazepa> we should take it seriously
[15:15:29] <jofazepa> because it's the right hard of freedom :D
[15:15:57] <jofazepa> not hard but arm
[15:16:04] <jofazepa> my english is worst everyday....
[15:16:36] ashledombos [~Thunderbi@mandriva/forum/ashledombos] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[15:16:40] <jofazepa> and I even bought an agenda!
[15:16:48] <ashledombos> hello
[15:16:50] <jclv> The good side of things is until we have our distro we can always improve our work, I mean the organisation
[15:17:00] <jofazepa> hi raf
[15:17:00] <jclv> Hi Raph :)
[15:17:06] <klebedeff> Hi Raph:)
[15:17:06] <bero|3> hi ashledombos
[15:17:16] <ashledombos> sorry for being late, traffic
[15:17:17] <klebedeff> jclv we can improve always:)
[15:17:32] <jofazepa> cocaine?
[15:17:47] <jclv> I just meant: we have some more time
[15:17:52] <ashledombos> jofazepa: no, only CO2
[15:18:05] <jofazepa> that's worst... it kill in silence :D
[15:18:08] <ashledombos> :)
[15:18:18] <ashledombos> what did i miss?
[15:18:22] <klebedeff> Raph, what are the topics, which require Joao most?
[15:18:29] <klebedeff> He leaves very soon
[15:18:38] <Wayne_Sallee> You have not missed anything.
[15:18:43] <klebedeff> ashledombos we did not start without you
[15:19:03] <ashledombos> oh you should have :)
[15:19:25] <ashledombos> ok, so let's start with our agenda
[15:19:41] ashledombos looking for the loomio link
[15:20:22] <jofazepa>
[15:20:29] <ashledombos> :)
[15:20:30] <ashledombos> thanks
[15:20:34] <ashledombos> quikcer than i
[15:21:01] <ashledombos> jofazepa: can you make a quick summary of the situation about pods?
[15:21:02] <jofazepa> I'm on OpenMandriva, not Rosa... that makes a difference...
[15:21:11] <jofazepa> It's the same, actually
[15:21:24] <jofazepa> I've the names of responsibles, and information for Brazil
[15:21:33] <jofazepa> I have a list of potential contacts
[15:21:41] <jofazepa> but I havn't yet made any contacts on it
[15:22:07] <jofazepa> I have a brief description to add to a not yet created wiki page for the PODS
[15:22:12] <jofazepa> with the infos....
[15:22:23] <jofazepa> I've putted them on second stage
[15:24:14] <ashledombos> ok, so I guess you need time for having enough informations? :)
[15:24:42] <jofazepa> yes indeed
[15:24:49] <ashledombos> ok
[15:24:51] <jofazepa> in fact I've a to do list that is quite long
[15:25:00] <jofazepa> my priorities now are finish the survey results
[15:25:09] <jofazepa> for both
[15:25:11] <ashledombos> that's the next point :p
[15:25:19] <jofazepa> and put the big team running
[15:25:42] <ashledombos> so how much time do you need for pods and survey in your opinion (just for having an idea)
[15:25:50] <jofazepa> that means I've to draft strategy for team, proces, etc... assign roles, etc... thats my priority now
[15:25:53] <jofazepa> only after that the pods
[15:26:26] <jofazepa> for the user survey, if all goes well and no more problems arise, I'll be able to finish this weekend
[15:26:31] <jofazepa> for the team I need another week
[15:26:35] <ashledombos> do you have the todo list somewhere?
[15:26:36] <jofazepa> then I can get on the pods
[15:26:44] <jofazepa> I can send it
[15:26:50] <jofazepa> not now, but I can send it
[15:26:52] <ashledombos> i mean wiki or else
[15:27:00] <jofazepa> ok, I added to wiki
[15:27:27] <ashledombos> just for having visibility on all this :)
[15:27:34] <jofazepa> ok
[15:27:36] <jofazepa> sure
[15:27:44] <jofazepa> btw
[15:27:46] <ashledombos> (avoiding to ask each meeting where we are :p )
[15:28:09] <jofazepa> and talking again about strategy
[15:28:22] <jofazepa> I believe that we should as an association take that bit serious
[15:28:31] <jofazepa> we have, long time ago, assigned areas to council members
[15:28:48] <jofazepa> I believe that is time, for those people to start drafting a strategic document for each area
[15:28:54] <jofazepa> for us to be able to discuss
[15:29:06] <jofazepa> and bring those to teams for discussion and future work on
[15:29:16] <jofazepa> that's what I'm trying to do to the new team
[15:29:16] <ashledombos> I agree, this can be the next meeting main topic then, wdyt?
[15:29:25] <jofazepa> that was what bero has done for the TC, etc...
[15:29:35] <jofazepa> agree
[15:29:40] <klebedeff> agree
[15:29:49] <jclv> agree
[15:30:02] <ashledombos> (i made the proposal to have a next meeting half September)
[15:30:37] <ashledombos> So, survey, I have read the report
[15:30:41] <ashledombos> very intersting
[15:30:45] <bero|3> agreed, both with the topic and the need for a meeting earlier than the next regular one
[15:31:04] <ashledombos> great :)
[15:31:08] <jofazepa> regarding the surveys, the next topic, we talked about that
[15:31:13] <jofazepa> before you came
[15:31:19] <ashledombos> oh ok
[15:31:25] <jofazepa> Bero was going to send it in meeting but few people came on
[15:31:28] <ashledombos> so no need to loose time on it
[15:31:42] <ashledombos> ok
[15:31:43] <jofazepa> so he is going to try another solution, maybe send to ML of cooker
[15:32:08] <jofazepa> the user survey was send as raw data, I've a info almost done and the suggestions mostly organized on a table
[15:32:42] <jofazepa> We have to discuss later a way to put it in wiki
[15:32:54] <jofazepa> with some evaluation of execution capabilities
[15:33:02] <ashledombos> yes
[15:33:10] <ashledombos> We discuss about it in council?
[15:33:10] <jclv> I suggest you directly put the result
[15:33:14] <ashledombos> council ml
[15:33:56] <jclv> Then we can discuss in the council ML
[15:34:15] VladimirRubanov [~Thunderbi@] a quitté IRC : Quit: VladimirRubanov
[15:34:17] <ashledombos> ok :)
[15:34:22] <jofazepa> (have 5 more minutes)
[15:34:36] VladimirRubanov [~Thunderbi@] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[15:34:38] VladimirRubanov [~Thunderbi@] a quitté IRC : Remote host closed the connection
[15:34:49] <ashledombos> ok so just next step to the 3rd topic
[15:34:51] VladimirRubanov [~Thunderbi@] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[15:35:13] <ashledombos> we agreed on gathering Artwork, Communication, Websites and Marketing in one team
[15:35:22] <ashledombos> we still need for a name
[15:35:43] <ashledombos> and jofazepa opened a poll in the teams to ask which name they would prefer
[15:35:49] <ashledombos> is there a clear winner?
[15:35:53] <jofazepa> is being voted for now is "Workshop" the winner, So maybe it will be Community Workshop the team name
[15:36:14] <ashledombos> Then Workshop is fine for me
[15:36:19] <jclv> Bah, why not ?
[15:36:25] <jclv> ;)
[15:36:43] <ashledombos> any objection?
[15:37:00] <ashledombos> as a remind, the related loomio
[15:37:04] <klebedeff> so we do not wait till poll finishes?
[15:37:16] <jofazepa> I wait
[15:37:19] <jofazepa> for principle :D
[15:37:22] <jofazepa> I'll do
[15:37:33] <ashledombos> oh, i thought the poll was finished :p
[15:37:34] <jofazepa> but the chances of a volteface are low
[15:37:41] <jclv> I chose "Lab" because it is not English only
[15:37:54] <ashledombos> yes, good reason for lab
[15:37:54] <jofazepa> Lab is related to science
[15:38:05] <jofazepa> in common sense
[15:38:08] <ashledombos> right
[15:38:14] <jofazepa> we have to be related to art, mastery
[15:38:18] <jclv> Aren't we clever ?
[15:38:21] <jofazepa> creation
[15:38:31] <jofazepa> and wine
[15:38:31] <ashledombos> :)
[15:38:35] <jclv> It's all us
[15:38:37] <jofazepa> so I voted fo Adega!
[15:38:42] <klebedeff> I was thinking of "Creation Workshop" or smth
[15:38:53] <jclv> Adega ??
[15:38:56] <bero|3> lab might be confused with development though
[15:39:04] <jofazepa> agree with Bero
[15:39:20] <jofazepa> (Adega is the Portuguese work for the place you produce and sell wine)
[15:39:36] <bero|3> or with labradors ;) Chwido would like that one
[15:39:39] <jclv> I see ...
[15:39:44] <ashledombos> So, unless some big surprise (we will wait) is everybody ok for workshop team?
[15:39:49] <jofazepa> yes
[15:39:56] <ashledombos> yes for me
[15:39:58] <jofazepa> I bet it will be Workshop
[15:40:05] <bero|3> works for me
[15:40:11] <jclv> I already answered: no op
[15:40:14] <jofazepa> the main issue
[15:40:20] <jofazepa> is how to manage so many issues
[15:40:36] <AnuragBhandari> yes for me
[15:40:39] <klebedeff> jofazepa what exactly you mean now?
[15:40:40] <jofazepa> so for me the concern is the draft of strategy, procedings and roles
[15:40:45] <klebedeff> ah
[15:40:51] <jofazepa> the name is marketing
[15:40:58] <jofazepa> and social identification
[15:41:25] <jofazepa> guys I've to go
[15:41:33] <jofazepa> sorry for the early leaving
[15:41:43] <jofazepa> I wish you all the best
[15:41:48] <ashledombos> no problem, see you later
[15:41:52] <klebedeff> see you Joao
[15:41:54] <jofazepa> so goodbye and untill I return
[15:41:55] <jclv> Don't worry, bye Joao
[15:41:56] <AnuragBhandari> jofazepa: see you
[15:41:57] <bero|3> bye jofazepa
[15:41:57] jofazepa [c1886652@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] a quitté IRC :
[15:42:27] <ashledombos> So as jofazepa will work on all workflow and teams, i suggest to switch directly to OMLx Qs
[15:42:33] <Wayne_Sallee> Works for me. :-)
[15:42:38] <ashledombos> :)
[15:42:41] <ashledombos> hi Wayne_Sallee
[15:42:56] <ashledombos> what works for you, the name of the teams or switching?
[15:43:07] <Wayne_Sallee> The name of the teams
[15:43:27] <ashledombos> ok :)
[15:43:39] <Wayne_Sallee> I had to go to the bathroom, and was a bit late on that one. :-)
[15:43:44] <jclv> This implies another ML
[15:44:21] <jclv> Don't drown
[15:44:38] <ashledombos> jclv: yes
[15:45:00] <ashledombos> AnuragBhandari: we'll need to have one ml to rule them all
[15:45:26] <jclv> In the Gondor realm
[15:45:32] <ashledombos> :)
[15:45:41] <ashledombos> bero|3: about question 5
[15:45:51] <ashledombos> "Tentative release date and preparations required (Communication and Infra)"
[15:46:01] <ashledombos> it was a question from jofazepa
[15:46:11] <ashledombos> so not sure of exactly what he had in mind
[15:46:23] <bero|3> beta should be ready any day now
[15:46:36] <bero|3> just sorting out dependency issues
[15:46:39] <AnuragBhandari> ashledombos: That One ML is currently being forged in the depths of Mount Doom
[15:46:47] <ashledombos> but it's true there will need more and more communication with future workshop team :) (blog posts, etc)
[15:47:01] <ashledombos> bero|3: great
[15:47:26] <ashledombos> bero|3: do TC have someone that could be dedicated to communication with workshop team?
[15:47:31] <ashledombos> i thought about arisel
[15:47:53] <ashledombos> as you are, in a way, the link with TC and council :)
[15:48:04] <bero|3> yes, if he wants to
[15:48:38] <ashledombos> knowing him, i think he would like
[15:48:43] <ashledombos> but i'll ask him
[15:48:46] <bero|3> me too
[15:49:04] <bero|3> there's no better choice
[15:49:28] <ashledombos> so beta is for the next days?
[15:49:36] <bero|3> yes
[15:49:58] <bero|3> unless something goes extremely wrong in testing
[15:50:04] <jclv> We can announce that ?
[15:50:06] <Wayne_Sallee> "no better choice" could be taken differently. :-)
[15:50:15] <ashledombos> bero|3: sure :)
[15:50:19] <jclv> Wayne_Sallee: ??
[15:50:30] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: yes :D but i think it's not pejorative :)
[15:50:35] <Wayne_Sallee> hehe
[15:50:50] <jclv> Ok
[15:51:01] <bero|3> jclv: please don't, the worst thing we can do is preannounce a release and then not make it
[15:51:21] <jclv> Was just a question :)
[15:51:25] <bero|3> certainly not prejorative
[15:51:56] <ashledombos> ok
[15:52:16] <ashledombos> so we wait for the green light from TC before any announcement
[15:52:44] <ashledombos> and i'll ask if arisel would accept to be working with workshop team, related to communication
[15:52:44] <ashledombos> s
[15:52:59] <jclv> Please take your time to do something great
[15:53:42] <ashledombos> any remark before i move to Q6?
[15:54:24] <klebedeff> silence would mean no remarks;)
[15:54:41] <ashledombos> oh, just one from me in fact :)
[15:54:44] <AnuragBhandari> I may be a bit slow in responding... doing the blog migration along :)
[15:55:03] <ashledombos> bero|3: now that there will be a workshop team, don't hesitate to ask for needed stuff related to infra
[15:55:13] <ashledombos> (access to mirrors, specific software etc)
[15:55:38] <ashledombos> ok Q6 then
[15:55:40] <bero|3> I think we're fine on that side now
[15:55:49] <ashledombos> great :)
[15:55:54] <ashledombos> 6. Definition of OpenMandriva Lx We have our definition, should we include or not the Mandriva legacy in it?
[15:55:56] <bero|3> really just needed a place for the mirror list
[15:56:15] <ashledombos> ok
[15:56:49] <Wayne_Sallee> People do need to know what the difference from Mandriva, and OpenMandriva.
[15:56:51] <ashledombos> there was a discussion between members of the association to establish the definition of OpenMandriva Lx by itself
[15:56:53] <klebedeff> to Q6 - probably our origins are indeed enough clear from our name..
[15:57:22] <ashledombos> yes that's the question
[15:57:30] <bero|3> We may want to mention it without making too much of a noise
[15:57:32] <ashledombos> I think the council should choose
[15:57:51] <Wayne_Sallee> Does Mandriva still plan on using OpenMandriva code?
[15:57:54] <ashledombos> ok, AnuragBhandari has just some concern about not telling explicitely
[15:58:15] <ashledombos> that we are the continuity of Mandriva Linux
[15:58:34] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: they said they have
[15:58:44] <ashledombos> but as usual Mandriva is not clear
[15:58:50] <klebedeff> Wayne_Sallee yes, they do plan once we are stable
[15:59:03] <klebedeff> as I know they watch close what we do now and wait to see the result
[15:59:26] <Wayne_Sallee> They are probably still waiting to see if we can make it.
[15:59:32] <klebedeff> i think so
[15:59:38] <bero|3> if pok were here, he'd point out Mandriva sucks and we should point out being the continuation of Mandrake instead
[15:59:45] <klebedeff> :))
[15:59:51] <ashledombos> :p
[16:00:10] <klebedeff> imo - having that in our name is enough
[16:00:12] <bero|3> while he isn't here, we may want to mention it somewhere
[16:00:24] <ashledombos> So you prefer OpenMandriva Lx is a free Desktop Operating System aimed to provide a wonderful user experience! It offers a simple, stable and modern GNU/Linux distribution, user-friendly yet powerful enough for the most advanced users.
[16:00:26] <Wayne_Sallee> POK says a lot of things that are not in line with OpenMandriva
[16:00:26] <ashledombos> rather than
[16:00:32] <ashledombos> OpenMandriva Lx is a free Desktop Operating System aimed to provide a wonderful user experience! It continues the legacy of Mandriva Linux by offering a simple, stable and modern GNU/Linux distribution, user-friendly yet powerful enough for the most advanced users.
[16:00:49] <klebedeff> oh, btw
[16:01:02] <klebedeff> (yes, my preference is with the first one)
[16:01:17] <klebedeff> you remember those discussions about Stallmann's email?
[16:01:18] <AnuragBhandari> as I said earlier, my vote is for the second one
[16:01:25] <klebedeff> about using Linux word?
[16:01:27] <ashledombos> klebedeff: yes
[16:01:31] <ashledombos> AnuragBhandari: oh ok :)
[16:01:40] <jclv> I think we should recall our continuity with Mandriva at least for the first release
[16:01:41] <klebedeff> I guess our current wording is OK, just reminding about that - just in case:)
[16:01:45] <ashledombos> klebedeff: yes
[16:02:06] <ashledombos> it's why we used the word GNU/Linux
[16:02:11] <ashledombos> more for the convention
[16:02:15] <klebedeff> ok
[16:02:17] <bero|3> also, not everyone agrees with Stallman on it
[16:02:22] <ashledombos> becausee I'm not sure today
[16:02:40] <ashledombos> that it's really a KDE/X/GNU/Whatever/Linux OS
[16:02:44] <Wayne_Sallee> Yea, we don't need "Mandriva" in our definition, but a little history on our web site will take care of that.
[16:02:47] <bero|3> we don't have to do it his way if we don't want to
[16:03:07] <Wayne_Sallee> and other info
[16:03:23] <Wayne_Sallee> But it's not needed in the "definition"
[16:04:14] <bero|3> agreed - no need to mention it in the definirion, but we should have a web page explaining more
[16:05:26] <jclv> yes, we should modify a bit the home page of our wiki
[16:05:41] <ashledombos> yes, AnuragBhandari started the work
[16:05:51] <ashledombos> but we lost time with some issues
[16:06:03] <ashledombos> including attacks against our website :)
[16:06:33] <ashledombos> (btw thanks jclv for the wonderful work you did since you're back)
[16:06:55] <jclv> humm ...
[16:07:19] <ashledombos> so bero|3 before we officially accept the defintino of OMLx
[16:07:31] <ashledombos> do you want to ask people in cooker TC if they are ok?
[16:07:39] <ashledombos> maybe in wider cooker too
[16:07:48] <ashledombos> but there are risk of trolls
[16:08:12] <bero|3> Probably there's no need
[16:08:22] <ashledombos> ok
[16:08:40] <bero|3> the definition is sane and the last thing we need is another fight about words
[16:08:44] <ashledombos> (i wondered if someone will argue against targeting the desktop)
[16:09:07] <ashledombos> so that's good, another thing done
[16:09:17] <bero|3> well, this is about the desktop product
[16:10:07] <ashledombos> Any remark befor Q7?
[16:10:10] <bero|3> if (or when) we make a server release or a phone release or whatever, we need a new definition for that anyway
[16:10:20] <AnuragBhandari> gotta go, guys
[16:10:26] <AnuragBhandari> will catch up later
[16:10:29] <ashledombos> bero|3: yes, and we can even have another name than Lx :)
[16:10:34] <ashledombos> AnuragBhandari: ok
[16:10:36] <ashledombos> see ya
[16:10:38] AnuragBhandari [~Thunderbi@] vient de partir de #openmandriva-council
[16:11:07] <ashledombos> Q7: Partnership with Edutice
[16:11:14] <ashledombos> (well it's related to Q8 in fact)
[16:11:30] <ashledombos> Edutice is a company until now working over Mandriva Linux base
[16:11:37] <ashledombos> for education
[16:11:50] <ashledombos> mainly in france, but also now in belgium, marocco
[16:12:12] <ashledombos> they make their own dev
[16:12:21] <ashledombos> kind of LTSP based on KDE
[16:12:37] <ashledombos> LTSP means Light distrbutions served by a server
[16:12:51] <ashledombos> well, believe me, they do amazing work :)
[16:12:57] <ashledombos> so the point is
[16:13:11] <ashledombos> they don't have all their work released as open source
[16:13:26] <ashledombos> they want to release at free software once they have enough money
[16:13:45] <ashledombos> so they're interested by having their own branch(?)
[16:13:49] <ashledombos> is the correct word?
[16:13:58] <klebedeff> вшмшышщт_
[16:14:02] <klebedeff> division?
[16:14:15] <ashledombos> they want to be able to modify the distro
[16:14:23] <klebedeff> ahha
[16:14:30] <ashledombos> but at the same time, propose their work in upstream (if upstream wants)
[16:14:40] <bero|3> perfect
[16:14:50] <ashledombos> but to be independant of the OM main node
[16:14:56] <ashledombos> sorry if i don't use the correct word
[16:15:01] <ashledombos> but you get my point?
[16:15:22] <bero|3> one thing they need to be aware of is that anything on our repositories is public
[16:15:52] <bero|3> so they can't use them for stuff they don't want others to see yet
[16:16:15] <bero|3> but outside of that, we definitely should do this
[16:16:19] <ashledombos> can they have a private ABF clone?
[16:16:29] <ashledombos> not sure if it's possible :)
[16:16:34] <ashledombos> linked to us
[16:16:47] <klebedeff> mmm
[16:16:50] <ashledombos> I aske that because i guess other companies may be interested
[16:17:15] <bero|3> in theory yes
[16:17:16] <klebedeff> as I remember from previous talks about similar issues with ABF guys - it is possible, but requires a lot of work from ABF team
[16:17:21] <ashledombos> and it would bring financial support and extra manpower
[16:17:45] <ashledombos> klebedeff: ok
[16:17:54] <klebedeff> let me ask ABF guys what they think
[16:17:54] <ashledombos> so not before a quite long time?
[16:18:02] <ashledombos> klebedeff: ok
[16:18:16] <bero|3> and anything that can be open (even if we don't use it yet) should be in our repos because that makes syncing easier
[16:18:24] <bero|3> good for both sides
[16:18:37] <ashledombos> (if you can ask them also about the project of renaming as or something like that :)
[16:18:55] <klebedeff> i will
[16:19:37] <ashledombos> bero|3: klebedeff ok, so they can't have a personal cloud for now?
[16:19:41] <ashledombos> not cloud
[16:19:44] <ashledombos> abf i mean
[16:19:52] <ashledombos> (messing my words)
[16:20:16] <ashledombos> linked to main ABF node
[16:20:54] <klebedeff> i already emailed Q
[16:20:55] <bero|3> they can, if they can figure out how to set it up or if we can get the abf guys to do it
[16:21:06] <klebedeff> please let me come back with professional comments from guys
[16:21:15] <ashledombos> sure, thanks klebedeff :)
[16:21:25] <bero|3> but I don't think it's what they really want
[16:21:41] <bero|3> We don't even have our own...
[16:22:08] <ashledombos> yes, but we're closer to Rosa
[16:22:08] <bero|3> they can get a "platform" in abf terms
[16:22:41] <bero|3> but of course that would require rosa's willingness to host it
[16:22:41] <ashledombos> as a company, they need more "privacy"
[16:23:03] <ashledombos> ok, so let's wait more comments
[16:23:42] <ashledombos> Q9
[16:23:43] <bero|3> let's see just how much privacy they need
[16:24:18] <fedya> what's question about ABF?
[16:24:20] <bero|3> many companies have their email hosted by google, that gives them far less privacy than an abf platform
[16:24:45] <klebedeff> fedya, you need the recent log?
[16:24:54] <Wayne_Sallee> I always laugh when companies use gmail instead of thier own servers.
[16:24:59] <ashledombos> fedya: mainly knowing if you can create your own abf node
[16:25:12] <ashledombos> bero|3: i guess edutice use its own solution
[16:25:30] <fedya> ashledombos: code of ABF platform is free and opened
[16:25:46] <Wayne_Sallee> gmail is nice to have, but it's nothing like the real thing.
[16:26:33] <ashledombos> fedya: yes, but even if theoritically it's open source, is it maintainable, and is it linkable to OpenMandriva :)
[16:26:53] <fedya> >can they have a private ABF clone? Short answer it's yes
[16:27:01] <fedya> i have a local copy of abf
[16:29:02] <ashledombos> Well
[16:29:23] <ashledombos> it's an interesting topic, but need more informations
[16:29:35] <ashledombos> so let's postpone it :)
[16:29:45] <ashledombos> I'll ask more info also to edutice next week
[16:29:55] <ashledombos> but it'll be a good study case, if it works
[16:30:02] <ashledombos> then Q9
[16:30:16] <bero|3> and we really need to check with them if they actually need a node or just a platform
[16:30:29] <ashledombos> bero already agree on having another non regular meeting half september
[16:30:42] <ashledombos> as we agreed here
[16:30:49] <ashledombos> we'll have a meeting each end of month
[16:31:13] <ashledombos> and if needed a second one
[16:31:19] <ashledombos> each month
[16:31:55] <ashledombos> I also agree on having one Thursday 14-09-20013
[16:32:01] <ashledombos> wdyt?
[16:32:16] <ashledombos> (i ask for this meeting because we'll have a lot of things to manage soon)
[16:32:23] <bero|3> +1
[16:32:26] <klebedeff> sure, good idea
[16:32:57] <ashledombos> jclv Wayne_Sallee fedya ?
[16:33:18] <fedya> +
[16:33:21] <jclv> Ok
[16:33:23] <Wayne_Sallee> I think the mailing list is more productive. :-)
[16:33:54] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: so -1?
[16:34:43] <ashledombos> the problem of mailing list discussion
[16:35:10] <ashledombos> contrary to meeting and loomio decisions, is that there is no ending
[16:35:18] <ashledombos> and not really outcome
[16:35:24] bero2 [~bero@arklinux/developer/bero] a rejoint #openmandriva-council
[16:35:25] <ashledombos> some topics can die
[16:35:38] <ashledombos> before we simply forget them
[16:35:56] <ashledombos> at least, at the end of a meeting, we have some "next actions' established
[16:36:03] <ashledombos> even if some topics are postponed
[16:36:05] <Wayne_Sallee> The same thing happens in loomio.
[16:36:09] <bero2> let's set Microsoft as a topic then so they can die ;)
[16:36:31] <jclv> :)
[16:36:33] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: well, discussions in loomio may die, right
[16:36:37] <ashledombos> but decision end
[16:36:43] <Wayne_Sallee> But after we get the forums set up good, maybe a private forum would work.
[16:36:53] bero|3 [~bero@arklinux/developer/bero] a quitté IRC : Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[16:37:08] <ashledombos> i mean, we have 3 days to agree or not, at the end decision is taken :)
[16:37:26] <jclv> Wayne_Sallee: We can already have
[16:38:08] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: kinda convinced or still -1?
[16:38:19] <Wayne_Sallee> obstain. :-)
[16:38:25] <ashledombos> ok :)
[16:38:49] <ashledombos> well, next meeting 14-09-2013 then (as most people here agreed)
[16:38:58] <ashledombos> AOB
[16:39:17] <ashledombos> well, not on the agenda but just thinking about something
[16:39:19] <jclv> thursday sept, 12 th ? (instead of 14)
[16:39:36] <Wayne_Sallee> Yea hehe
[16:39:39] <ashledombos> jclv: correct
[16:39:41] <ashledombos> :D
[16:40:22] <Wayne_Sallee> So it's 09-12-2013 :-)
[16:40:27] <ashledombos> yes :)
[16:40:30] <ashledombos> 15:00 UTC
[16:40:41] <Wayne_Sallee> 2013-09-12 :-)
[16:41:48] <ashledombos> yes :)
[16:41:53] <ashledombos> it's better this way
[16:42:16] <Wayne_Sallee> better what way?
[16:42:45] <ashledombos> YYYY-MM-DD
[16:42:50] <Wayne_Sallee> yep
[16:42:59] <ashledombos> about AOB
[16:43:15] <Wayne_Sallee> That's the way I always date YYY-MM-DD, then it's alphabetical on computers.
[16:43:42] <ashledombos> I was just thinking about
[16:43:48] <Wayne_Sallee> YYYY-MM-DD :-)
[16:44:01] <ashledombos> Or we should redefine this rule, or we should start having some discussions :)
[16:45:07] <klebedeff> why should we redefine it?-p
[16:45:19] <jclv> Because we don't apply it
[16:45:21] <Wayne_Sallee> Not only are we not having much particiation in the council meetings, but I only have about 2/3 of members replying to give info.
[16:45:37] <Wayne_Sallee> I just sent the 4th reminder out today.
[16:45:48] <klebedeff> jclv but we have it and can apply it
[16:46:10] <klebedeff> we are not obliged to do so, but sometimes I really do remember about that rule:)
[16:46:24] <klebedeff> when we have no quorum or people simply are not here for months
[16:46:25] <jclv> I don't think this is a priority just now ...
[16:46:28] <ashledombos> Yes, I think we need to talk about it, but maybe it's a matter of organization
[16:46:40] <klebedeff> good to have this topic up anyway
[16:47:12] <jclv> klebedeff: you are right but we can't afford it just now
[16:47:34] <ashledombos> jclv: i agree, we don't want to generate anger, or anything
[16:47:43] <ashledombos> but we need to think about a problem:
[16:48:05] <ashledombos> council is a closed team, because we're elected. it may be a problem
[16:48:05] <klebedeff> I am not suggesting to apply it right now
[16:48:21] <ashledombos> for example if we need extra people working on administrative stuff
[16:48:34] <ashledombos> otoh council can manage boring stuff
[16:49:01] <jclv> So we can recall the rule explaining why we have adopted it
[16:49:34] <ashledombos> I guess the best is to discuss with every body and understand where the see a problem
[16:49:37] <ashledombos> and if we can fix it
[16:49:58] <jclv> In a positive way ...
[16:50:02] <ashledombos> yes
[16:50:04] <ashledombos> of course :)
[16:50:15] <ashledombos> i'm not fond of machine-guns
[16:50:44] <jclv> discuss with every body and understand where "the sea of problems"
[16:51:01] bero2 [~bero@arklinux/developer/bero] a quitté IRC : Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[16:51:03] <ashledombos> and council aslo have a hard history (mainly thanks to some trolls :)
[16:51:24] <jclv> yeap!
[16:51:35] <bero|2> People who never show up for meetings should generally not be too annoyed about being asked to step down
[16:51:40] <bero|2> We don't have to force them to
[16:51:59] <ashledombos> Yes, but the question is why did they step down
[16:52:13] <ashledombos> is it because no time, lack of interest, to many other stuff to manage
[16:52:32] <ashledombos> my main concern is when some topics don't have a single reply
[16:52:33] <klebedeff> for most of people the answer is clear actually
[16:52:44] <klebedeff> i mean "why they..."
[16:53:00] <ashledombos> ah?
[16:53:48] <jclv> .. and the loss of confidence on our ability to produce something real ?
[16:54:02] <ashledombos> we, as council?
[16:54:22] <jclv> We as asso, just a guess
[16:55:04] <ashledombos> fedya: do you have some opinion?
[16:55:23] <jclv> When, we will have other sponsors and a final release, people will come back
[16:55:24] <klebedeff> I would not want to go to manes now
[16:55:27] <klebedeff> to names
[16:55:40] <ashledombos> oh, i have no problems with name :)
[16:55:49] <ashledombos> it's not an accusation or something like this
[16:55:52] <fedya> ashledombos: step down for no time i think
[16:56:00] <ashledombos> it's mainly for understanding
[16:56:02] <klebedeff> but 1 person explicitly said it - he is extremely busy with his work, wishes to support, but has no time for real active input
[16:56:04] <ashledombos> how it's perveived
[16:56:12] <klebedeff> about the second one I just know it myself
[16:56:42] <klebedeff> some are developing and not much into administrative work - they are just not interested in administration at all:)
[16:56:43] <klebedeff> etc
[16:56:48] <ashledombos> fedya: i wondered if for example some people did not care about council's acitivty because they don't have time, or dislike the way we work
[16:56:50] <Wayne_Sallee> I think time is the biggest reason.
[16:57:01] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: yes, i also
[16:57:14] <klebedeff> to make it short: some have not enough time, some focus on work in their teams
[16:57:18] <ashledombos> the problem is that the council is one of the least flexible team
[16:57:30] <ashledombos> we can't make a new vote each two months :p
[16:57:32] <fedya> ashledombos: for example for me today it's no late for meeting, i'm very tired and i'm alone in office ;)
[16:57:54] <jclv> That's a good reason
[16:57:58] <ashledombos> yes, timezones is a real problem
[16:58:00] <fedya> s/no/too/g
[16:58:03] <ashledombos> you're in office fedya ?
[16:58:15] <fedya> ashledombos: still in office
[16:58:19] <ashledombos> wow
[16:58:46] <Wayne_Sallee> But using loomio for voting can help with time, but the discussions on loomio waist time because you can't go to first unread post
[16:59:04] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: agree
[16:59:34] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: the best would be a fusion of loomio and discourse
[16:59:59] <jclv> So, back the ml (but here we have the same problem) or the private forum
[16:59:59] <ashledombos> mailing list are also quite a pain
[17:00:16] <ashledombos> yes
[17:00:31] <ashledombos> but forum also have a problem
[17:00:39] <ashledombos> people don't think about reading it necessarily
[17:00:49] <ashledombos> unless they F5 all day long :)
[17:01:08] <Wayne_Sallee> Mailing lists work better if you use e-mail software to put everything in the proper folder, but a well developed forum would probably work well.
[17:01:20] <jclv> Every one can receive a mail when a new post is sent
[17:01:28] <ashledombos> yes
[17:01:59] <ashledombos> the updated forum should be inline fvery soon
[17:02:38] <ashledombos> unless there is other remark, can we consider this meeting over :)?
[17:03:21] <Wayne_Sallee> Yep, it's been 2 hours now; speaking of time. :-)
[17:03:21] <jclv> So we can decide to open a council section, publicly readable but reserved to council member as writers
[17:03:46] <ashledombos> if someone can put the logs on the wiki (d'oh, it's in maintenance)
[17:04:20] <jclv> Not the wiki
[17:04:26] <jclv> The blog
[17:04:53] <Wayne_Sallee> ? the logs go in the wiki
[17:05:31] <jclv> The blog is open again
[17:05:43] <jclv> Wayne_Sallee: yes as usual, no?
[17:05:59] <Wayne_Sallee> oh now i see what you were saying.
[17:06:07] <Wayne_Sallee> :;-)
[17:06:34] <Wayne_Sallee> the blog was in maintenance. :-)
[17:06:47] <jclv> Sorry, I was not clear
[17:06:52] <Wayne_Sallee> :-)
[17:07:40] <jclv> And the blog seems very reactive
[17:08:06] <Wayne_Sallee> Yea, things are running faster now.
[17:08:14] <ashledombos> jclv: the wiki is shown as in maintenace
[17:08:34] <Wayne_Sallee> See y'all later
[17:08:41] <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: thanks to the work of jclv :)
[17:09:16] Wayne_Sallee [~waynesall@] a quitté IRC : Quit: Ex-Chat