OpenMandriva:Technical/M20130528

TC meeting

Time & Place

Place: #openmandriva-cooker @ irc.freenode.net Date/Time: Tuesday 2013-05-28, 14:30 UTC

Time

Time zone	Local time	UTC offset
CET	Tuesday 2013-05-28, 15:30	UTC+1
MST	Tuesday 2013-05-28, 07:30	UTC-7
MSK	Tuesday 2013-05-28,18:30	UTC+4
VLAT	Wednesday 2013-05-29, 01:30	UTC+11

Agenda

1. Where we stand w/ the release
2. Documentation
3. AOB
4. Cooker
5. QA

Summary

text

LOG

Meeting started in #openmandriva-cooker 1055 EDT/1455 GMT

[10:55] <bero> Guess nobody else is showing up, so let's get started...
[10:55] <bero> 1. State of the release
[10:55] <bero> So from where I stand things are looking good
[10:56] <bero> We've been fixing repoclosure and other issues
[10:56] <bero> I'm currently working on fixing the Java stack
[10:56] <bero> Then we need to integrate the artwork
[10:57] <bero> And then I think we're pretty much ready for an
official alpha/beta
[10:57] <bero> Does anyone have comments on the release state?
[10:58] <crisb> none from me
[10:58] <Xu|Mobile> Do we have another iso?
[10:58] <crisb> oh yes i586 iso? or will that wait for official
[10:59] <bero> Not yet
[10:59] <blackcrack> notebooks ?
[10:59] <bero> We'll try to build an i586 image next time as well
[10:59] <Xu|Mobile> How big is the ISO?
[11:00] <Xu|Mobile> Should we try to shrink it down to 690 mb?
[11:00] <bero> Around 1GB at the moment
[11:00] <bero> But the package list isn't final
[11:00] <blackcrack> Xu|Mobile: good idea for one-cd
[11:01] <Xu|Mobile> Ok.
[11:02] <mandrivian> like pclinuxos does with MiniMe, just 480MB. very
minimal KDE packages
[11:02] <bero> We should try, but I'm not sure we can fit anything
reasonable on it
[11:02] <blackcrack> and the rest can install via Net
[11:02] <Xu|Mobile> bero: where are the links to the package lists?
[11:02] <blackcrack> need only LXDE or EDE as minimal Desk
[11:03] <bero> If we can, I'm in favor of releasing both a CD image
and a DVD image with more stuff
[11:03] <blackcrack> so possible for partionsprogramm and other tools
[11:03] <blackcrack> 1+
[11:03] <Xu|Mobile> bero: that sounds fine with me... But the DVD:
It'll have to be drakx'ed, I assume.
[11:03] Join: dsilakov [188.123.252.89]
[11:04] <bero> Xu|Mobile: they live in got, iso-pkg-lists
[11:04] <Xu|Mobile> I don't think a livecd 4GB installation sounds appealing.
[11:04] <Xu|Mobile> bero: ok.
[11:04] <bero> git, not got
[11:05] <bero> Well, a big iso is appealing for those who don't have
reasonable net connectivity
[11:05] <bero> Think Africa
[11:05] <Xu|Mobile> But to install all that? Disk space becomes an issue.
[11:05] <bero> Even there hard disks are typically 100GB+
[11:05] <blackcrack> if can make 3-4 diffrent CD's/DVD it's realy good
for offline install's too
[11:07] <blackcrack> 40gb+ in the developing lanfds
[11:07] <blackcrack> lands
[11:07] <Xu|Mobile> bero: my point is that on a 4.7 GB dvd, there's
probably a lot of unnecessary software...
[11:07] <blackcrack> how ever, the have wlan sticks too :)
[11:08] <blackcrack> Xu|Mobile:  +1 but shold supporting in DVD
Servers for building up OM servers in developing lands like africa
[11:08] <mandrivian> what about 4GB with minimal DE Live Installer +
custom medium in one DVD. users just have to add the DVD medium or
added automaticaly?
[11:08] <bero> Xu|Mobile: True, but mostly stuff people without
connectivity can't get elsewhere
[11:09] <blackcrack> bero: +1
[11:09] <blackcrack> therefor 3-4 diffrent DVd and CD's
[11:09] <blackcrack> DVD offline , CD's online-live
[11:10] <Xu|Mobile> bero: any reason that it can't be installed on
demand from the DVD?
[11:10] <bero> blackcrack: they do have WiFi sticks, just no network
to connect to. Connectivity in Ethiopia (even where it exists) feels
like the entire country shares 1 dialup line to the outside world
[11:10] <blackcrack> bero: but with an wifistick can you build a
wfi-server too..
[11:10] <bero> Xu|Mobile: Could do that
[11:10] <blackcrack> err: wifi-server
[11:11] <blackcrack> in win7 wors.. shold work in linux too
[11:11] <blackcrack> works
[11:11] Join: VladimirRubanov [217.199.216.178]
[11:11] Quit: VladimirRubanov [Remote host closed the connection]
[11:11] <blackcrack> wifi-server / router
[11:11] Join: VladimirRubanov [217.199.216.178]
[11:12] <blackcrack> wifi-server / router in linux for livecd maby too
? if we have anyone who programming it
[11:12] <Xu|Mobile> Probably be a good idea - that way they can get a
small desktop installation with lots of additional media on demand.
[11:12] <bero> Yes, just needs someone to implement it
[11:13] <bero> Fortunately it's not that much work
[11:13] <Xu|Mobile> blackcrack: I think it's really infrastructure
that's the issue...
[11:13] <blackcrack> Xu|Mobile: +1 jupp
[11:14] <blackcrack> but maybe in near future, the suggestin/idea is there..
[11:14] <Xu|Mobile> Ok - it's something to look into.
[11:15] <bero> OK, anything else?
[11:16] <Xu|Mobile> no from me
[11:16] <bero> I guess we can skip over documentation too because
arisel isn't here
[11:16] <bero> So next would be QA
[11:17] <bero> Xu|Mobile: Probably best left to you?
[11:17] <blackcrack> Xu|Mobile: you the only from the QA group, were
is ben and the other
[11:18] <Xu|Mobile> With QA... We're busy  trying to get everything set up
[11:19] <blackcrack> Xu|Mobile: you know, we are now on QT-Theme there *g*
[11:19] <blackcrack> QA-Theme.. sorry *g*
[11:19] <Xu|Mobile> Like bugzilla... But - we're having trouble with a
release plan.
[11:19] <blackcrack> you have a issue for bero ?
[11:19] <bero> We need to sort out how to handle bugzilla...
[11:20] <Xu|Mobile> We need to know outstanding tasks and requested
major features for any sort of release plan
[11:20] <bero> And possibly to talk about the 2 cookers idea
[11:20] <Xu|Mobile> 2 cookers? As in branching?
[11:21] <OnlyHuman> any chance of cli iso's like mdawkins made for unity-linux?
[11:21] <bero> Outstanding tasks: Fix bugs, integrate artwork,
configuration, No major features before the release
[11:22] <Xu|Mobile> Define fix bugs - what components should we look out for?
[11:22] <blackcrack> bero, maby some lil bugfixes ? like inkscape,
pixmap,gtk-devel and some
[11:23] <bero> 2 cookers: That's an idea that would allow users to
stay on current stuff without risking breaking the system by running
full cooker
[11:23] <Xu|Mobile> Also define configuration :/
[11:23] <Xu|Mobile> bero: so testing repositories.
[11:24] <blackcrack> official/cooker and fireup pots *bG*
[11:24] <blackcrack> good idea *g*
[11:24] <bero> Ideally, I'd like QA to test packages that hit cooker,
and copy them to cooker-stable after making sure it doesn't break
things badly
[11:25] <blackcrack> and the hardcore-users who have burning fingers *s*
[11:25] <Xu|Mobile> That's fine with me, but we might be slow...
[11:25] <bero> Xu|Mobile: configuration = tweak desktop default
configs etc and possibly add a theme selection screen to first login.
[11:26] <blackcrack> i like all 3 to use.. one stabile system, one up
to date and one who i can testet out how fare and actuall it is all
[11:26] <bero> That's my thinking too
[11:26] <blackcrack> hahh the mastermind
[11:27] <bero> We just have to make sure we have enough people to
maintain the stable cooker branch
[11:27] <blackcrack> *bg*
[11:27] <rugyada> thrill cooker & rolling cooker ? :)
[11:27] <Xu|Mobile> QA will have to do some recruiting...
[11:27] <Xu|Mobile> rugyada: that's one way of putting it :)
[11:27] <blackcrack> wait, the disle of "Mandrake" mus at first
start.. this is only a burning up..
[11:27] <blackcrack> diesel
[11:27] <bero> rugyada: yes - those may actually be good names
[11:28] <rugyada> ;)
[11:28] <rugyada> the less thrilling cooker may be a kind of rolling release
[11:28] <blackcrack> _/official /cooker /burningfingers
[11:28] <Xu|Mobile> We also need to do some bugfixing recruiting for
QA... So that we can triage better.
[11:30] <bero> Right... I hope we'll get more users and thereby more
contributors once we make the release
[11:30] <Xu|Mobile> Mmhmm... Can we determine the criteria for a beta release?
[11:30] <bero> Let's try...
[11:30] <Xu|Mobile> Because when we meet most of that criteria, a
cooker freeze might be nice :)
[11:31] <bero> Cooker has actually been frozen for about 2 months
[11:31] Join: klebedeff [gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.134.169.225]
[11:31] <rugyada> advanced users are happy also to play with beta, usually.
[11:31] <Xu|Mobile> And then I can start throwing notifs to create
feature pages for 2014
[11:31] <bero> We just tend to allow exceptions right now
[11:31] <blackcrack> rugyada: +1
[11:33] <bero> IMO criteria for beta should just be that it works
without too many obvious bugs on common hardware
[11:33] <bero> We can't aim too high without more people unless we
want to delay the release by more months
[11:34] <Xu|Mobile> Right... But we can't be unpolished either :)
[11:34] <bero> True
[11:34] <Xu|Mobile> IMO it looks pretty good right now... I still
don't understand the loop3 bug, but that's about it.
[11:35] <Xu|Mobile> Have we gotten akonadi and nepomuk shut off for the live cd?
[11:35] <bero> We don't really understand it yet, but shutting off
akonadi and nepomuk cures the worst symptoms
[11:36] <Xu|Mobile> Probably because of the loop mount.
[11:36] <bero> We don't have a prerelease with that yet
[11:36] <Xu|Mobile> That's ok - at least that's there...
[11:38] <Xu|Mobile> Hmm... I think that really should be it for now.
[11:38] <Xu|Mobile> I'd say defaults and temp artwork be deployed so
that a beta can go.
[11:38] <bero> I agree
[11:39] <Xu|Mobile> Shall we make that a goal for the next few weeks?
[11:39] <bero> Yes, definitely
[11:40] <bero> That must be the main work now
[11:41] <Xu|Mobile> Cool - if all goes well, we'll have a beta.
[11:42] <bero> Anything else?
[11:42] <rugyada> 2 questions
[11:43] <rugyada> how's the situation about bugzilla? users can file
bugs already ?
[11:43] <blackcrack> not jet.. like Xu|Mobile wrote in the mail
[11:43] <blackcrack> in QA-om
[11:43] <rugyada> I must have missed it
[11:43] <blackcrack> i ask befor beginning the  meeting today
[11:44] <bero> basically it's up but the config/handling isn't sorted out
[11:44] <rugyada> 2) about artwork I sent, bero  any comments? needs?
[11:44] <blackcrack> per mail
[11:44] <Xu|Mobile> rugyada: still not yet. Ben and colin are working
on that IIRC
[11:45] <rugyada> ok. thanks for the info.
[11:45] <bero> rugyada: looks good, we'll integrate it soon
[11:46] <rugyada> anything missing in it?
[11:46] <rugyada> by me, I mean
[11:46] <blackcrack> I look forward to the next CD's
[11:47] <blackcrack> -/DVD's ..
[11:48] <rugyada> about ads images, what is the message we want to put in them?
[11:48] <rugyada> generic?
[11:48] <rugyada> anything to highlight?
[11:49] <bero> Guess that's up for com team to decide
[11:50] <rugyada> ok
[11:50] <rugyada> oh, almost forgotten
[11:50] <rugyada> they're 1 up to 10 images, right?
[11:51] <arisel> (re)
[11:51] <arisel> sorry for beeing that late, but had day Hob stuff to do :)
[11:51] <arisel> s/Hob/Job
[11:51] <blackcrack> oh.. hi :)
[11:52] <blackcrack> bero, maby you issue, the docu ?
[11:52] <rugyada> images during installation is supposed to play in
circle or if we have 10 they  appears once each one?
[11:52] <arisel> rugyada: depends on the time the install takes, so
depending on users hardware.
[11:53] <arisel> rugyada: I tested several machines and speeds as well
as live/std. install.
[11:53] <rugyada> so, its a matter of time
[11:53] <arisel> rugyada: I'd say 6 is a nice number to display, maybe
8. 10 should be too much for todays PCs :)
[11:53] <arisel> rugyada: and yes, they circle.
[11:54] <rugyada> ok, that's because I thought about a series of
images kind of a progress bar
[11:54] <rugyada> serie*
[11:55] <arisel> rugyada: we can't guarantee that every user sees all
images. We could change the loop to "show only once", but then maybe
some people won't see all :)
[11:55] <rugyada> mmm
[11:55] <arisel> rugyada: also, a std. progress bar is already displayed.
[11:56] <rugyada> arisel: yes I know, this was in my intention
something different ;-)
[11:56] <arisel> rugyada: ok :)
[11:56] <rugyada> that's why I need to know that.
[11:57] <arisel> rugyada: thinking of an opening flower or sth like that?
[11:57] <rugyada> not really...
[11:58] <arisel> ok :)
[11:58] <rugyada> but before I must try, then I can reveal it
[11:58] <rugyada> lol
[11:59] <rugyada> oh, well, it could be something like you said actually.
[11:59] <arisel> rugyada: If you want me to build a small iso where
you can try out artwork, just ping me and i can put pictures into the
installer.
[11:59] <rugyada> arisel: ok
[11:59] <arisel> rugyada: however, the process always will take some time :)
[12:00] <arisel> but that should not trouble us.
[12:01] <arisel> bero: where are we in the agenda?
[12:03] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: you/someone (jcl?) moved last weeks TC
meeting minutes to a new/old place in the wiki. However that now looks
quite bad. Could you change that to sth more nice? :)
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[12:05] Quit: bero [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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[12:05] <arisel> bero|3: *ping*?
[12:05] <bero|3> Sorry, got disconnected
[12:06] <bero|3> 64 bytes from 127.0.0.1
[12:06] <arisel> 17:59 <arisel> bero: where are we in the agenda?
[12:07] <bero|3> Pretty much through
[12:07] <bero|3> But we may want to come back to documentation
[12:07] <Xu|Mobile> arisel: only switched the last : to a /
[12:07] <Xu|Mobile> May want to fix naming though :P
[12:07] <bero|3> We skipped that because you weren't there earlier
[12:08] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: if you can do anything to make the place
where it's now look any nicer that would be very welcome.
[12:08] <arisel> bero|3: no problem.
[12:08] <rugyada> arisel: why page looks quite bad ?
[12:09] <arisel> rugyada: that's the original place been:
http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/OpenMandriva:Technical:TCMeetingMinutes-20130521
now it's here: http://wiki.openmandriva.org/om/en/2013-Week21_TC_Meeting
<-- still the old, undesigned place of the wiki.
[12:09] <arisel> bero|3: just one bigger thing last week on documentation:
[12:10] <arisel> (apart from smaller bugfixes/changes)
[12:11] <arisel> http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Cooker#Communication
<-- minimal polished communication info + my proposal for some basic
coooker communicatrion guidelines.
[12:11] <Xu|Mobile> rugyada: Are you guys going to use Artwork as your
main space on the wiki?
[12:11] * arisel has had enough of that "that's ok on cooker / that's
not ok on cooker"-threads.. :) So I posted sth (and had bero a look at
it) of which I think should be the basic rules.
[12:12] Quit: mandrivian [Quit: Page closed]
[12:13] <bero|3> Yes, looks really good to me
[12:13] <rugyada> Xu|Mobile: sorry, what you mean?
[12:13] <arisel> crisb: still there?
[12:14] <Xu|Mobile> rugyada: right now the artwork links on the
sidebar and the front point to "Art". Would you like me to change it
to "Artwork"?
[12:14] <rugyada> Atwork is better
[12:14] <rugyada> yes, thank you
[12:15] <rugyada> maybe Art would have been the category
[12:16] <rugyada> not the page itself
[12:16] <arisel> rugyada, Xu|Mobile: you're technically (*g*) not TC,
but however active on cooker-ML and here. Can you take a look at
http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Cooker#Communication and see if it
reads ok for you?
[12:16] <crisb> arisel: yep
[12:16] <arisel> crisb: can you also take a look there?
[12:17] <arisel> crisb: just want to see if we've some basic
understanding, so that nobody wonders about what stuff is
liked/disliked on cookerml, eg.
[12:18] <rugyada> arisel:  I read already, and is full undestandable :)
[12:19] <Xu|Mobile> rugyada: done
[12:19] <arisel> rugyada: thanks :)
[12:19] <Xu|Mobile> arisel: fine with me
[12:19] <rugyada> Xu|Mobile: perfect
[12:19] <rugyada> thanks
[12:19] <arisel> Xu|Mobile: ty :)
[12:20] * blackcrack in mdk6.1 and need runlevel3 .. easy "linux init
3" hahh this is a thing ! it works easy !
[12:24] <rugyada> arisel: re 2013-Week21_TC_Meeting
[12:24] <rugyada> to tell the true, I read the old page, and I found
it hardly readable because of <pre> (or code) which force to enlarge
the page browser enldless :) )
[12:25] <arisel> rugyada: the new poahe is way nicer, it's just a
broken logo on the left side and the old navigation areas :)
[12:25] <arisel> s/poahe/page
[12:25] <arisel> rugyada: so that's the stuff that should be fixed.
The layout is fine :)
[12:27] <rugyada> <pre> format like code, every row in one row
[12:29] <rugyada> so text doesnt shift again at the beginning of the
following row
[12:29] <arisel> bero|3: so. nothing else on documentation for me now.
Am working on package guidelines and stuff and will publish when I've
further input/ideas there.
[12:29] <arisel> bero|3: did anyone address the QA-Discussion Colin started?
[12:30] <arisel> rugyada: that's fine. :)
[12:30] Quit: bero|3 [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[12:30] <crisb> arisel: looks good to me
[12:32] <arisel> crisb: thank you.
[12:33] <arisel> bero|2: *ping* :)
[12:38] <arisel> hmm.. as bero seems to have connection troubles, and
we're through our short agenda, we maybe should end it for today. I'll
however maybe try to discuss QA interaction here, later today.
[12:40] <arisel> crisb, rugyada, Xu|Mobile, *: or are there any other
AOB-points to address?
[12:40] <rugyada> thank you all for the nice chat
[12:40] <rugyada> see you soon
[12:40] <Xu|Mobile> I'm good.
[12:40] <arisel> ok :)
[12:40] <arisel> crisb: ?
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[12:44] <arisel> bero: thinking of finishing the meeting, but I'd like
to discuss QA stuff with you later today. :)
[12:45] <arisel> (have to leave now for a hour or 2 :)
[12:54] Quit: bero [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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[12:54] <Xu|Mobile> Guess it's finished :)
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[13:01] <blackcrack> oky, bb :)
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