OpenMandriva:Council/M20130718/Log

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[14:54] == jofazepa [c1886652@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.136.102.82] has joined #openmandriva-council
[15:12] == denis_silakov [~denis_sil@217.199.216.178] has left #openmandriva-council []
[15:31] == mdawkins [9877fffa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.119.255.250] has joined #openmandriva-council
[15:33] <Wayne_Sallee> This is an interesting meeting that we have been having today. :-)
[15:34] <Pulfer> Wayne_Sallee: When should it start, BTW?
[15:35] <Wayne_Sallee> It was scheduled to start 34 minutes ago.
[15:35] <bero> I'm here...
[15:36] <Pulfer> Well, I have nothing to say today
[15:36] <Wayne_Sallee> Looks like our secretary is not going to make it. She was not sure if she would be able to make it today.
[15:38] <Wayne_Sallee> I'm surprised that Patrico is not here, since he posted several reminders including this morning.
[15:38] <bero> I wonder if we have the timezone right or if it'll start in 23 minutes
[15:38] * bero is always confused by DST
[15:39] <bero> And I'm probably not the only one
[15:41] <jofazepa> hi!
[15:41] <jofazepa> not really the meetings are at 15hUTC
[15:41] <jofazepa> current UTC time is 14:41
[15:41] <jofazepa> so the meeting will start in about 20 min :D
[15:41] <jofazepa> and I'm here :D
[15:41] <fedya> meeting?
[15:42] <mdawkins> council no?
[15:42] <jofazepa> yes fedya, council meeting, ordinary one, 
[15:43] <Wayne_Sallee> yea the last e-mail did say 1500, so that's in anotehr 15 minutes
[15:43] <Wayne_Sallee> Was it not 1400 before?
[15:43] <Wayne_Sallee> stated
[15:44] <jofazepa> no
[15:44] <jofazepa> it was at 15UTC
[15:44] <jofazepa> but let me check
[15:44] <jofazepa> oh yes, "This e-mail is just to remember that next Thursday it's the councils ordinary meeting. The ordinary meetings are at 15:00 UTC." (from the 09-07-2013) mail
[15:45] <Wayne_Sallee> I guess I got confused.
[15:46] <Wayne_Sallee> oh well, better to be early than late. :-)
[15:46] <jofazepa> :) no problem, I just hope that no one else got confused to :|
[15:46] <jofazepa> We have already some "quits"
[15:46] <jofazepa> This will be a short meeting
[15:47] <jofazepa> I believe we can talk and decide on all topics in less than 30 min
[15:47] <jofazepa> like it was planned for this type of meetings
[15:47] <fedya> what's about agenda?
[15:47] <jofazepa> at least I believe so :|
[15:47] <jofazepa> I can copy past it from mail
[15:48] <jofazepa> 1. Evaluation of OMA participation on fisl 14 2. Analysis of the possibility to match the OpenMandriva Lx Beta release and Mandrake anniversary (day 23 jul) 3. Community Pods organization strategy and listing/contac list 3. Lack of participation on management of association and procedural decision taking redefinition. 4. Surveys to Devs and Community 5. 6 month evaluation of activity
[15:48] <jofazepa> points 3,4 and 6 are just discussion on starting and how to
[15:49] == jclv [~kvirc@13.17.90.92.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openmandriva-council
[15:49] <jofazepa> point 1 is evaluation of what went well, what wen wrong and what can be done to be better next time
[15:49] <jofazepa> point 2 is just to receive confirmation of possibility to have the beta on 22 july
[15:50] <jofazepa> so I guess it will be easy to manage everything in a short period of time if the meeting is focused
[15:50] <jofazepa> :d
[15:50] <jofazepa> hi jean-claude
[15:50] <jclv> Hello, did you already start?
[15:50] <jofazepa> oh no
[15:50] == klebedeff_ [d49e9612@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.158.150.18] has joined #openmandriva-council
[15:50] <jclv> Ah, ok
[15:50] <jclv> Hi Kate
[15:50] <jofazepa> hi kate
[15:50] <klebedeff_> Hi there:)
[15:50] <fedya> hi
[15:50] <bero> Hi
[15:52] <Wayne_Sallee> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=test&iso=20130718T15
[15:53] <jofazepa> so, it's time
[15:53] <Wayne_Sallee> Does the "fixed time" show up for others?
[15:53] <jofazepa> first I would like to thank you all for your presence and for giving a little bit of more of your personal time to this meeting and to oma
[15:54] <Wayne_Sallee> I mean "converted time"
[15:54] <jofazepa> (worked of me)
[15:54] <Wayne_Sallee> cool
[15:54] <jofazepa> we have 5 issues to discuss in this agenda
[15:55] <jofazepa> the first one is "1. Evaluation of OMA participation on fisl 14 "
[15:55] <jofazepa> so I would like to listen from Kate and Bero (i guess the only one here that were on fisl) what went good, what went wrong and what the council need to prepare in advance to be "ready" for this type of events
[15:55] <jofazepa> for the thing to go smoother next time
[15:56] <klebedeff_> well, in fact, I can not say anything went wrong
[15:56] <bero> IMO all went well - with language barrier being a little problem
[15:57] <klebedeff_> on the event itself things went really smooth, we had a lot of visitors, we were also catching people ourselves:)
[15:57] <jofazepa> (next time I'll go :-))
[15:57] <klebedeff_> yes, this will be a big advantage:)
[15:57] <klebedeff_> what was an issue, is that we had to plan everything really on short notice
[15:58] <klebedeff_> (since I managed to get the funds very shortly before the event)
[15:58] <klebedeff_> and we could not have a proper planning or discussions with council in advance
[15:58] <jofazepa> ok
[15:58] <klebedeff_> but this hopefully will be better in the future
[15:58] <klebedeff_> we need ot have for the future an information kit, imo
[15:58] <jofazepa> do you believe that we should have someone in council attached to find events, and prepare them?
[15:59] <jofazepa> ok. information kit noted
[15:59] <klebedeff_> like presentation about OMA, but max 1 page: who we are, why and how to join
[15:59] <klebedeff_> very short (people do not read too much when they get first info:), but very informative
[15:59] <jofazepa> like a "brochure"?
[15:59] <klebedeff_> (and we need to learn portuguese anyway... yes:)
[15:59] <klebedeff_> a 1 page leaflet I mean
[16:00] <jofazepa> ok
[16:00] <klebedeff_> for events the short forms work best imo
[16:00] <jofazepa> (you just need to learn the bad words ... :-P)
[16:00] <bero> And maybe some better automatically running demos so the screens keep displaying interesting stuff even while nobody is paying attention
[16:00] <klebedeff_> hehe
[16:00] <klebedeff_> bero - you mean penguins games, right?:)
[16:00] <bero> Yes, for example
[16:01] <jofazepa> bero, like a "presentation" passing institutional and project oinformation
[16:01] <jofazepa> like the info we see on a "installer" when we wait
[16:01] <jofazepa> ?
[16:02] <jofazepa> I think I got it
[16:02] <bero> jofazepa: I'm thinking something that keeps people looking - some info, some penguin games to attract attention, ...
[16:02] <jofazepa> ok
[16:03] <jofazepa> videos?
[16:03] <bero> Basically a "look what you can do with our stuff" type of thing
[16:03] <jofazepa> oh! ok
[16:03] <bero> Yes
[16:03] <jofazepa> like in engines roaring in the car exibit
[16:03] <klebedeff_> ye:)
[16:03] <Wayne_Sallee> videos showing the operating system being used.
[16:03] <bero> Yes, kind of...
[16:04] <jofazepa> ok
[16:04] <jofazepa> has anyone anyting more to add?
[16:04] <bero> Video showing the OS in use, some info, running game, some more info, ...
[16:05] <jofazepa> I'm thinking of a video showing a mix of "interviews" and "workaround"
[16:05] <Wayne_Sallee> nice variety of interesting stuff. :-)
[16:05] <jofazepa> ok. so let's move the the second issue on the "menu"
[16:05] <jofazepa> "2. Analysis of the possibility to match the OpenMandriva Lx Beta release and Mandrake anniversary (day 23 jul) "
[16:06] <jofazepa> I've prepared a text to "congraluate" the community for the 15 years anyversary of MAndrake
[16:06] <jofazepa> what I need to know is will we be able to present the Beta on the 23 or not, for the text to be "rounded" to it?
[16:06] <bero> I think this is primarily a question for QA now... Can we get it tested reasonably in time?
[16:06] <jofazepa> we are 5 days away
[16:07] <bero> Development wise, I'm not 100% happy, but 98%
[16:07] <jofazepa> ok
[16:07] <bero> And this is a beta, so that should be fine
[16:07] <jofazepa> ok
[16:07] <klebedeff_> (when Bero is 98% happy... yes, we do have a beta:)
[16:07] <jofazepa> so I'll wait for a QA answer
[16:08] <jofazepa> if there are a radical "no" from them we just send them the congratulations and the surveys
[16:08] <jofazepa> if not
[16:08] <jofazepa> we give the all pakcage
[16:08] <jofazepa> is there any strong objections to this?
[16:08] <bero> I think the 1 thing we NEED to fix is having a package repository preconfigured
[16:08] <jclv> What are the remaining 2%?
[16:08] <jofazepa> is that hard?
[16:09] <bero> Not that hard, but it means we have to have a reasonable mirror structure etc. In place
[16:09] <jofazepa> ok
[16:10] <jofazepa> if we are not able to have it preconfigured, can we have at least in some of those "easy urpmi" like things something running in a short time period?
[16:10] <jofazepa> we can just annouce that
[16:10] <bero> Sure
[16:10] <jofazepa> ok
[16:11] <Wayne_Sallee> As someone previews Openmandriva, when you can't update software it's quite a let down.
[16:11] <bero> It's just a simple command people have to run
[16:11] <jofazepa> can we put a "script" on the desktop called "Configure your Repo" and people just run and voilá=
[16:11] <jofazepa> ?
[16:12] <Wayne_Sallee> That sounds good.
[16:13] <bero> Sure, that's easy
[16:13] <jofazepa> ok, so I'll prepare the needed info and send to the council until day 20
[16:13] <jofazepa> for the blog post to be done and translated at 22 at night (UTC)
[16:13] <bero> I need to know when the QA guys need an iso
[16:14] <jofazepa> for you all to review and check if something is just stupid :D and with the link to the survey to users that will have only trivial stuff
[16:14] <jofazepa> you contact them or want the council to do it?
[16:14] <jclv> bero: I guess asap
[16:15] <jofazepa> jclv: yes, I guess it's a asap moment :D
[16:15] <jofazepa> can I move to the another topic?
[16:16] <fedya> yes
[16:16] <jofazepa> "3. Community Pods organization strategy and listing/contac list "
[16:16] <jofazepa> we have worked and reached the final definitions on the way the community will be organized and how we will interact with groups
[16:17] <jofazepa> I've already contacted Diogo of Brazilian community and we are working
[16:17] <jofazepa> but we need to define some simple things
[16:17] <jofazepa> how we will approach the community,
[16:17] <jofazepa> and what are our contact list
[16:18] <jofazepa> this means, what old mandriva, etc.. groups, do we have contacts
[16:18] <jofazepa> to approach them directly
[16:18] <jofazepa> or simply send an e-mail/blog post and ask to be contacted by whom desires to be part of the network
[16:18] <klebedeff_> my first idea would be Cristina for Italy
[16:19] <jofazepa> talking of MIB
[16:19] <klebedeff_> imo blogpost and email and to keep that blogpost on top for a while - all that is needed anyway
[16:19] <jofazepa> and contact the groups we have closer at same time? (this could lead to someone left behind to get "bored")
[16:20] <klebedeff_> Wobo could give a hand for Germany probably
[16:20] <klebedeff_> (no need to speak of Blogdrake, this is natural, right?:)
[16:20] <jofazepa> I know MIB, Blogdrake, MCNL, Mandriva Romania, Mandriva Uk, Francophone Mandriva Users (now more a mageia feud), Turkish mandriva users, but don't know much more...
[16:21] <klebedeff_> Derrick Devnet can not be taking part in daily operations, but I am sure he has some contacts to share
[16:21] <jclv> .. and the Duth community
[16:21] <jofazepa> So, let's opt by the blogpost and general mailing list mail at same time?
[16:21] <klebedeff_> who would be the contact? the first contact?
[16:22] <jofazepa> that's one of the issues, I don't have much contacts... just a few
[16:22] <bero> Did we ever have a community in China?
[16:22] <jofazepa> don't know, we have some community in indonesia
[16:23] <jofazepa> but china... we could be big in japan :D
[16:23] <bero> They seem too big to ignore
[16:23] <jofazepa> bero: agreed
[16:24] <klebedeff_> Marco Benatto knows some guys from China, who could give a lead probably
[16:24] <klebedeff_> first contact - I meant in OMA. Who will be the first helping hand?
[16:24] <jofazepa> let me try to organize some work here: 1. let's all try to collect contacts, from blogdrake to edumandriva, etc... and send them to me (i'll do collect them and do a database)
[16:25] <jofazepa> klebedeff: I guess me for now... I'm the stick to all duties... lol
[16:25] <klebedeff_> :)
[16:25] <jofazepa> if someone offers I'll be glad :D
[16:25] <jofazepa> 2. prepare the blogpost/mail and draft it to be release asap
[16:25] <klebedeff_> jofazepa what about mentioning this in the blogpost and email, that we not just ask Pods to come, but we also look for contacts 
[16:26] <klebedeff_> and that contacts should be sent to you (in case people have good ideas)
[16:26] <jofazepa> klebedeff_: ok. noted!
[16:26] <jclv> which email address?
[16:26] <jclv> com@openmandriva.org?
[16:26] <klebedeff_> this is th erase, I guess, when @openmandriva.org email should be approved for Joao:))))))
[16:26] <jofazepa> I would say COM but I just can't configure it :D
[16:27] <jofazepa> they can send to my personal e-mail for now
[16:27] <jofazepa> it's public one joao.patricio@gmx.pt
[16:27] <jofazepa> :D
[16:27] <klebedeff_> this is the case (sorry)
[16:27] <jclv> jofazepa: I can help you
[16:27] <jofazepa> we have the social@ alias
[16:27] <jofazepa> it also can be used
[16:27] <jofazepa> or the com@
[16:27] <jofazepa> i vote for the com@
[16:28] <jofazepa> it stands for communication but also for community :d
[16:28] <jofazepa> it's com@
[16:28] <jofazepa> :)
[16:28] <jofazepa> jclv: thanks!!!
[16:28] <jofazepa> I've took note of all your contributions on this issue, and I'm going to move things forward
[16:29] <klebedeff_> thank you Joao
[16:29] <jofazepa> the next issue on the agenda is "Lack of participation on management of association and procedural decision taking redefinition. "
[16:29] <jofazepa> this is quite a delicate one
[16:29] * bero wonders when it will be interpreted as COMmercial
[16:29] <klebedeff_> btw, Bero is right...
[16:29] <jofazepa> bero: or COMmunists, or COMrads, or COMplicated, or COMon just fuck of! :D
[16:30] <jclv> bero: we could do an alias like "comm"
[16:30] <klebedeff_> *klebedeff_ would suggest to consider joao@
[16:30] <klebedeff_> :)
[16:31] <jofazepa> I see no problem wuth the com@, in the text we can say send it to our community mail com@ etc...
[16:31] <klebedeff_> (Joao, sorry for interrupting)
[16:31] <jofazepa> before that i would prefre council@
[16:31] <klebedeff_> or that, yes
[16:32] <jofazepa> but I believe that is not a relevant discussion right now, we manage that later, dyt?
[16:32] <klebedeff_> sure, just mentioning ideas since there was a concern
[16:32] <jofazepa> ok
[16:32] <jofazepa> thanks
[16:32] <jofazepa> I'm more concerned with the topic in discussion right now
[16:32] <bero> Me too
[16:32] <jofazepa> as you all noticed most discussion that are related to managment receives lack of participation
[16:33] <jofazepa> that leads to decisions being taken/or not being taken by few, or not at all
[16:33] <jofazepa> we have a very wide council
[16:34] <jofazepa> but we have in most of this partciular fields weak participation in general
[16:34] <jofazepa> i would like first to listen, and I'm assuming some stroing postion here, your opinion on this topic
[16:34] <jofazepa> cause i believe we have to redesign our decision taking process
[16:34] <jofazepa> and define some rules on participation/commitment
[16:35] <klebedeff_> *Kate would better wait for other to say few words first
[16:35] <jofazepa> i can say my view if you want
[16:35] <klebedeff_> yes we do, I guees
[16:35] * bero agrees with jofazepa so far
[16:35] <jofazepa> I see that everybody tends to focus on what they do better and like better
[16:36] <jofazepa> eveyrbody has personal, and professional constrains
[16:36] <jofazepa> so that is for me not an excuse for it
[16:36] <jofazepa> my strong opinion is that we should use more the "out-of-real-time" decisoion taking
[16:37] <jofazepa> we should also set a rule on that if people don't participate on the regular decision taking for some time should take place and give place to another
[16:37] <jofazepa> we have lot's of organs that are not in "management"
[16:37] <klebedeff_> which organs you mean now?
[16:38] <jofazepa> oh, for example TC, the teams, the committes, etc...
[16:38] <klebedeff_> (re "if you are not here, you leave" - we actually have this rule already. If a council member does not show up 3 times in a row on a regular council meeting without notice and warrant given to another person, he can be excluded)
[16:39] <klebedeff_> If I may pop in for a second
[16:39] <jofazepa> yes. we also have a rule that we have a weekly meeting that I suggest to change for at least 2 monthly meetings with 1 week pre-warning
[16:39] <klebedeff_> I think you are talking about two topics in fact now
[16:39] <bero> Maybe we just need to enforce the rules that are there already
[16:40] <klebedeff_> there is a topic of council as head organ
[16:40] <klebedeff_> and there are teams
[16:40] <jofazepa> yes kate, it's two of the same topics, presence and involvment on management
[16:40] <klebedeff_> do you think it is worth to separate these topics now, to have it clearer?
[16:40] <jofazepa> no, when I said we have other organs was with the intent that people that don't like management can not be in council
[16:40] <jofazepa> we have other organs for them
[16:41] <jofazepa> let the management to the people we care about management
[16:41] <klebedeff_> ah, I see, OK
[16:41] <jofazepa> I agree with bero
[16:41] <jofazepa> first we need to enforce the rules we have
[16:41] <jofazepa> but also change some
[16:41] <jofazepa> i suggest to enforce the fact we use loomio for decision taking and discussion
[16:42] <klebedeff_> that sounds wise
[16:42] <jofazepa> and chage the meetings to 2 a month
[16:42] <jofazepa> instead of 1 a w
[16:42] <Wayne_Sallee> I think that the mailing list is the best for discussion, and that loomio is the best for voting
[16:42] <jofazepa> but only two if relevent matter exist
[16:42] <jclv> strongly agree on loomio
[16:42] <klebedeff_> nad mopad for texts approval
[16:42] <klebedeff_> :)
[16:42] <jofazepa> or it will have only 1
[16:43] <jofazepa> (i'm agains using mopad, just because they say - it's for mozilla crew :D)
[16:43] <jofazepa> (but I'm in favor of we isntalling a etherpad lite on our servers for us :)
[16:43] <Wayne_Sallee> and that chat is not as efficient.
[16:43] <klebedeff_> (we will not fight about this, I bet;)
[16:43] <jofazepa> I dislike ML, but thats a personal preference. for example ubuntu is shifting to discourse
[16:44] <jofazepa> yes, chat is not that productive
[16:44] <Wayne_Sallee> What do you not like about ML?
[16:44] <jofazepa> organization mainly
[16:45] <Wayne_Sallee> What would you like instead of ML?
[16:45] <jofazepa> in some software i can tag it, organize it, be warned only when I have to do with it, have higlights when I'm cited, etc...
[16:45] <Wayne_Sallee> You don't use e-mail software?
[16:46] <Wayne_Sallee> thunderbird.
[16:46] <jofazepa> personaly prefer something like discourse or even some forum software if conventienly hacked
[16:46] <jofazepa> i use thunderbird, but it get's hard to catch because people don't clean the message in the responmses, etc...
[16:46] <Wayne_Sallee> myboards is good forum software.
[16:46] <jofazepa> I would not like to move away from the topic
[16:46] * bero prefers MLs, easily accessible both from computers and phones
[16:47] <jclv> jofazepa: discourse is not completed yet. vanilla forum allows that
[16:47] <jofazepa> so i guess is general position that we shoudl enforce the existing rules
[16:47] <jofazepa> and put them running
[16:47] <jofazepa> jclv: I know :D
[16:48] <Wayne_Sallee> I mean myBB
[16:48] <jofazepa> jclv: I was the vanilla pusher since the beginning, and we should have some private forum there for most of it :)
[16:48] <Wayne_Sallee> :-)
[16:48] <jclv> jofazepa: it's a possibility
[16:48] <jofazepa> I will pass this info to Raphael, that has president should communicate about it
[16:49] <jofazepa> and will pass to the infra team for them to brainstorm a bit on this matter
[16:49] <jofazepa> related to "dicussion"
[16:49] <jofazepa> does it seem positive?
[16:49] <jclv> yes
[16:50] <jofazepa> moving forward
[16:50] <jofazepa> issue 3
[16:50] <jofazepa> sorry 4
[16:50] <jofazepa> Surveys to Devs and Community 
[16:50] <jofazepa> I've prepared 2 surveys
[16:50] <jofazepa> they are almost finishd
[16:50] <jofazepa> one to users one to devs
[16:50] <jofazepa> the objectives are completely different
[16:51] <jofazepa> the DEVS survey is to understand the needs, dificulties, pros, etc.. fo their activity contributing to OpenMandriva Cooker
[16:51] <jofazepa> and should be a closed survey
[16:52] <jofazepa> sent to the people that have contributed to cooker since the OMA cooker was born
[16:52] <jofazepa> any objections on this?
[16:52] <jclv> How will you (we) use the result?
[16:52] <jofazepa> I will do a report
[16:52] <jofazepa> and send to council
[16:52] <jofazepa> and TC
[16:53] <jofazepa> they will analyse that issues and see what they can do to work them around, and if they are plausible
[16:53] <jclv> I mean, ony devs could think about this kind of things
[16:53] <jclv> s/ony/only/
[16:53] <jofazepa> it's not only devs
[16:53] <jofazepa> it's a experience survey
[16:53] <jofazepa> is what is going well, what is going wrong
[16:53] <jofazepa> what could go better
[16:53] == VladimirRubanov [~Thunderbi@217.199.216.178] has quit [Quit: VladimirRubanov]
[16:53] <jofazepa> is work with the people already working
[16:54] <jofazepa> on cooker
[16:55] <jofazepa> is like listening to the workes satisfaction :D
[16:55] <jofazepa> you feel is not needed, have any concern on people opinions, or are afraid we can't do nothing about it?
[16:56] <jofazepa> that is the part were council do a response to each question and says we can do this, we can't do that, we are unable by now to do that
[16:56] <jofazepa> but we are listening that htis is a issue
[16:57] <jofazepa> in the case of the survey to users is trivial, just focus on defaults, for now, we after 2-3 moths of the release we should do a more complete one
[16:57] <jofazepa> jclv: did I answer your question or just got thing more confuse? :D
[16:58] <jclv> Sorry, my connection is unstable and I received your replies by big packets
[16:59] <jofazepa> don't worry
[16:59] <jofazepa> I'm still here :D
[16:59] <jofazepa> and wishing to move to next topic :-)
[17:00] <jclv> jofazepa: yes, that was just a question to understand better what you men :)
[17:00] <jclv> what you mean
[17:00] <bero> The only concern there is that if what the users want is too different from what devs can and want to work on, we may get some "they ask but throw away the results" reputation
[17:00] <jofazepa> I'll send both surveys until saturday nitg to the council ml
[17:00] <jofazepa> bero: I understand but don't agree
[17:01] <bero> I agree that we need to listen
[17:01] <jofazepa> devs: have a tec approach
[17:01] <jofazepa> and justify the choices based on tec
[17:01] <jclv> We can  carefuly  explain the purpose of the survey
[17:01] <jofazepa> users say preferences
[17:01] <jofazepa> when tec is stronger than pref
[17:01] <jofazepa> we have dev winning
[17:01] <jofazepa> the same for the opposite
[17:02] <jofazepa> we must never forget we are not a company
[17:02] <jofazepa> and we must explain very clearly to users
[17:02] <jofazepa> that we are listening
[17:02] <bero> But realistically you don't get a volunteer to spend a month of his time working on something he thinks shouldn't be done
[17:03] <klebedeff_> bero - as I understood, Joao will have it on the top of the users survey, that the survey is not a promise etc, for people to have it clear from the start
[17:03] <jofazepa> but there are choices that we do that are the choices that are clear
[17:03] <jofazepa> for example
[17:03] <jofazepa> imagine people don't like simplewelcome
[17:03] <jofazepa> and want lancelot
[17:03] <jofazepa> but devs want simplewelcome
[17:03] <bero> Yes, it does come down to having to manage expectations correctly
[17:04] <jofazepa> we can explain community that that was the choice right now but we have lancelot available and we are working on a way that in the future people can choose on install (for example) between both
[17:04] <bero> Agreed
[17:04] <jofazepa> yes, managing expetations is dificult and needs to be done smartly
[17:04] <jofazepa> from the survey results we will do a simple table
[17:04] <jofazepa> to put on wiki
[17:04] <jofazepa> then the TC will answer if it can be done
[17:05] <jofazepa> and why, nad what are the solutions
[17:05] <Wayne_Sallee> but giving users a choice when they install and after they install, will go a long ways.
[17:05] <jofazepa> we are not making promissis by listening
[17:05] <jofazepa> we are just listening and saying we will do our best to be with you
[17:06] <jofazepa> we must not forget that a survey works with a population and not a universe
[17:06] <jofazepa> :d
[17:06] <klebedeff_> :)
[17:06] <jofazepa> it's more of a we listen and collect ideas stuff
[17:06] <jofazepa> not a "tell us waht to do"
[17:06] <jofazepa> I hope I made it clear... :)
[17:07] <bero> Yes
[17:07] <jofazepa> but before posting it you all will read and give your opinion on the questions, texts, etc...
[17:07] <jofazepa> and if it's not clear you will help to make it clearer :d
[17:07] <bero> I fully agree BTW, we just need to make sure people understand it
[17:08] <jclv> No promises but users must see that their wishes are taken in account 
[17:08] <jofazepa> We need to get away from that Mandriva stereotype of "not listeniing"
[17:08] <jofazepa> from my experience
[17:08] <jofazepa> you will be able to satisfy 50% of the wishes
[17:08] <jofazepa> :D
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[17:08] <jofazepa> and you just have to say that we are satysfying them :D
[17:08] <jofazepa> lol
[17:08] <jclv> :)
[17:09] <jofazepa> I understood and took not of your concerns
[17:09] <jofazepa> and they are very valuable to me
[17:09] <jofazepa> these surveys will be taken in the future by the User Delegate
[17:09] <jofazepa> that is not part of council
[17:09] <jofazepa> they are been taken by council now because there is no User Delegate
[17:09] <jofazepa> when that happens the UD is part of advisory
[17:09] <jofazepa> board
[17:10] <klebedeff_> right
[17:10] <jofazepa> and not council, the relation will be different in the matter of expectation management
[17:10] <jofazepa> we will treat users as any other stakeholder
[17:10] <jofazepa> but now we are on transition so...
[17:11] <jofazepa> Can I moe to the next topic? My 30 min went away...
[17:11] <jofazepa> lol
[17:11] <bero> Sure
[17:11] <jofazepa> so the enxt one is 6 month evaluation of activity 
[17:11] <jofazepa> I believe we should start working oin this
[17:11] <jofazepa> for the same time we do the final release
[17:12] <jofazepa> this is a proposal
[17:12] <jofazepa> for us to prepare a report on our activity, a very visual one
[17:12] <jofazepa> and add that as a doc to the OpenMandriva Lx DVD final release
[17:13] <jofazepa> so is packaging a record in a output :D
[17:13] <jofazepa> listening right now....
[17:13] <bero> Good plan
[17:14] <bero> Maybe we should add the user survey to the DVD too so people see right away that we're at least trying to listen
[17:15] <jofazepa> we can add a folder with a PDF/DJvu report, a video (maybe the video we talked earlier), some institutional information, etc...
[17:15] <jofazepa> bero: ok agree
[17:15] <jofazepa> anyone else?
[17:16] <jofazepa> if no one else as nothing to say more
[17:16] <klebedeff_> sorry, I was distracted by cooker for few minutes, catching up
[17:16] <jofazepa> I just ask if someone as anything to add to this meeting?
[17:17] <klebedeff_> just caught up:)
[17:17] <Wayne_Sallee> One downside to adding it to the DVD is that it would become outdated, but if it were a link to the servey on the website, that could always be keept updated.
[17:17] <klebedeff_> no, I think we are done
[17:17] <klebedeff_> (at least I have no Qs or add-ons)
[17:18] <jclv> I think that the idea of a report is very interesting, at least for us.
[17:18] <jofazepa> i understand your concern wayne but if we date it on the docs I see no problem, and we can always have a place on web with the recent information, that people can follow up)
[17:19] <jofazepa> the report would have a description of the activity, transparency information, cooker stats, etc...
[17:20] <jofazepa> plus the surveys, maybe the video, we can do it with lot's of visual gimmicks
[17:20] <jofazepa> like a big infographic :d
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[17:20] <jofazepa> ok guys
[17:20] <jofazepa> it's late
[17:20] <jofazepa> I will just end this meeting right now
[17:21] <klebedeff_> thank you Joao!
[17:21] <jofazepa> i wish you all
[17:21] <klebedeff_> for preparing and leading
[17:21] <jofazepa> the best
[17:21] <klebedeff_> was good and constructive
[17:21] <jofazepa> and peace!
[17:21] <jclv> Thank you Joao
[17:21] <jofazepa> I'm agressive as poodle, this means I can be very annoying, so sorry for it :d
[17:21] <klebedeff_> and peace, yes:)
[17:22] <klebedeff_> as poodle?::)))))) aaaa!!!!!
[17:22] <jofazepa> thanks you all for participating on this meeting
[17:22] <klebedeff_> you made my day:)
[17:22] <jofazepa> :-P
[17:22] <jofazepa> I will do the minutes
[17:22] <jofazepa> and post them on wiki
[17:22] <klebedeff_> thanks indeed Joao
[17:22] <jofazepa> I will not post logs
[17:22] <jofazepa> i believe they are not usefull for general public just the agenda and the decisions
[17:22] <jofazepa> so
[17:22] <jofazepa> for you all
[17:22] <jofazepa> thanks!
[17:23] <jofazepa> for your commitment
[17:23] <bero> To you too

[17:24] <jofazepa> like i say in Portuguese, now in english: goodbye until my return
[17:24] <jofazepa> I'll be back!
[17:24] <jofazepa> bye :-)
[17:24] <jclv> Bye :)
[17:24] <klebedeff_> bye all:)